USAC Racing Forum
August 21, 2014, 04:16:42 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: SMF - Just Installed!
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5
  Send this topic  |  Print  
Author Topic: Class Age in regards to a Points Season  (Read 14400 times)
miketsmith
Feature Winner
***
Posts: 136


« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2010, 02:34:18 PM »

I guess I have to apply for a wavier for him to run the LT. W/F next year. I know my local club will allow it, but on the National level I guess I have to go to James for a ruling. I wonder how the JR. Stock bears in all of this. He has ran it for two years.

Thanks,
Logged
streihawk8
Rookie
*
Posts: 31


« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2010, 10:29:53 PM »

It doesn't....it is a Restricted class!
Logged
wesracing
Veteran
**
Posts: 84


« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2010, 07:15:18 AM »

Just for some info, the age rule was talked about at the USAC competition meeting and what will happen next year is if your child turns 9 before june 30 than you will have to either start the sr. class from the beginning of the year or move up on you birthday. If you turn 9 after that date than you will be allowed to finish the year in the jr. class. I think USAC is working on the 2011 rulebook now and hopefully will release it with the changes soon. James would have to verify the exact date and that this will be put in place for the 2011 racing season.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2010, 07:38:50 AM by wesracing » Logged
sfreitas20
Triple Crown Champion
*****
Posts: 525



WWW
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2010, 11:14:47 AM »

I like that change, but if that is going to be added, I would really like to see something in there regarding how long a driver has raced if they are going to stay in the Jr class that whole year.  If the rule is just going to move the date to June 30, then you could have a kid that turns 5 in July that races a few Rookie races and then move up to the competitive Jr classes (Honda, Animal and/or Stock) and races 4 complete seasons as a Junior.  In that scenario the kid would be better served by moving to Sr, but the parents aren't going to do so because their little future NASCAR star is going to be able to win a bunch of races that fourth year.

If the kid has raced competitively for three seasons (full or partial) then they should move up at the beginning of the year in which they turn nine.  If a kid has raced competitively for less than two seasons then they should be given an option to stay in the Jr division if they turn 9 during the season.

Just my two cents on it.
Logged

Scott Freitas
Patriot Motorsports Inc.
Karnes29
Veteran
**
Posts: 91



« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2010, 12:35:06 PM »

I Know this is going to open up a can of worms but here it goes.What about only allowing the Sr Kids race for so long and then maybe move up?My son is 9 and this is his first year of racing and he races senior honda, Most of the season i looked at the age of the kids he was racing against and it was 11 to 13 yrs old and almost all of them had been racing for 5 or 6 years.I know a few kids that was racing in the rookie class with my son moved up to the heavy honda class because the car count was to big.I'm not trying to take the car count away or talent as far as that goes because my son liked racing against these kids and i think it helped him out alot.Regardless on how we do next year I think we are going to try the 160s along with the Animal. I don't really want to argue about this on this site, I just wanted to give my thoughts.
Logged
wesracing
Veteran
**
Posts: 84


« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2010, 12:42:14 PM »

I feel that if the kid stays in the junior class that 4 th year that you are talking about then that is on the handlers of that kid. They would only be hurting the kids advancement by holding him back and that is totally on them and I don't feel that is USAC's job to police that.
Logged
sfreitas20
Triple Crown Champion
*****
Posts: 525



WWW
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2010, 12:59:16 PM »

That is like saying if everyone, everywhere used common sense we wouldn't need any laws.  It might be a true statement, but it is only true in fantasy land.  Tell me you don't know of handlers at just about every track that would leave their kid in it regardless so he/she could amass more "meaningless" wins.  That would hurt other kids and the sport.

USAC wouldn't have to police anything, just add a provision to the rule and the clubs will enforce the rules.  It keeps the sport more fair for everyone involved.  I personally don't have "a dog in this hunt" because it really won't impact my driver either way, I just think picking a new date in the middle of the year isn't really solving the problem as it exists today, it is just moving the problem up a few months.

A real solution to the problem would be one that not only counts on age, but also on experience to determine when a kid should have to move up.
Logged

Scott Freitas
Patriot Motorsports Inc.
Jeff Lapcevich
Rookie
*
Posts: 40


« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2010, 07:33:44 AM »

You guys lost me when you got going about hurting the kid by spending too much time in Jr.  I think that's true for novice but not JH, maybe you could explain? And as for the "meaningless wins", you can't run Sr at the club and go back to Jr for the Grands and Regionals in QMA and I think it's the same for MWT and GenNext Tour in USAC; or do you classify them as 'meaningless' as well?
Logged
wesracing
Veteran
**
Posts: 84


« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2010, 08:15:22 AM »

I shouldn't have worded that like that. I am not taking anything away from junior honda. We were there last year and it is a tough class. As for kids staying there to get wins, if that is what they choose to do than that is totally their choice and when they entered in there first year, I am sure there was an older group of kids that was hanging out just to get those wins so I feel it comes full circle. Personally, I feel it is not hurting the other kids in junior honda for the older kids to stay in junior honda just for the wins because I strongly feel that the kids are only as good as their competition therefore an older kid staying in junior honda would if anything help the other juniors in my opinion.
Logged
Jeff Lapcevich
Rookie
*
Posts: 40


« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2010, 09:53:48 AM »

Right on Wes
Logged
actireman
Rookie
*
Posts: 12


« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2010, 09:57:21 AM »

I don't know why some parents think that moving thier kids up faster will make them better racers. You have to balance moving up and success together for it to work. You have all the opportunity in the world to make your child better and still achieve success. When Michael was 5 in JH we got our teeth kicked in. Age 6 was alittle better. Age 7 we were finally getting close to being on top of the pile. I am sure he is looking forward to age 8. We ran JH and JS at 5, the same at 6. At 7 we ran JH, JS, and LT MOD. The purpose for LT MOD was to make him better and also allow him to still have success in the JR classes. At age 8 he will run JH, JS, LT MOD, LT 160. He will get his teeth kicked in again in two classes and hopefully have success in the other two. What kid wants to loose every week, success makes confidence and confidence is something I want my son to have. After JR, he won't be on top of the pile again until he is 12. So am I suppose to put him in a big car at 11 so he can keep losing? We are not going to NASCAR like most of these kids, but we are going to have alot of fun and have great memories.  
Mike Clancy  
Logged
sfreitas20
Triple Crown Champion
*****
Posts: 525



WWW
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2010, 10:02:35 AM »

I will try to explain my stance better...

If they move the date to June and don't put anything in the rules regarding experience you will have drivers whose birthday is in July that can race competitively in Jr Honda for 4 complete seasons because they can finish out the one in which they turn 9 halfway through instead of jumping up to Sr Honda/Animal.  My argument is that if a driver has raced competitively in Jr Honda for 3 seasons, their experience should make them competitive enough to race in Sr Honda/Animal.  However if their handler can leave them in Jr Honda/Animal for a whole other season and get wins because they are racing a bunch of 6 and 7 years olds with far less experience, those really aren't wins that are helping that driver gain a lot of experience, therefore "meaningless" in terms of teaching the driver about how to be a good driver.

Yes, it will help those 6 and 7 year old drivers become better drivers by racing against older kids that are better, but at the same time the confidence level of those 6 and 7 year olds is going to suffer and that could hurt the sport if they decide to throw in the towel too.  

There is a big difference between the attention span of an 8 year old and a 6 year old and in some sports it might not be that obvious, but anyone that has been around Quarter Midgets and seen 6 year old Rookies and 8 year old Rookies, knows what I am saying.  When they go to Jr Honda, a 6 year old that has been racing since he/she was 5 has a fighting chance against an 8 year old that has been racing for a year and that makes the class pretty fair.  You make that 6 year old race against a 9 year old that has 3 years under his/her belt and it isn't a fair fight at all.

I believe just moving the date, without any consideration for experience is only moving the problem without really fixing it.  Then I guess it depends on what everyone perceives as the real problem too.  To me the jump to Sr Honda/Animal is real nightmare for a kid that has only been in the sport for a year or so and is the real issue we should be trying to address.  If we can move the date and give a kid in this situation more time, then I think we should.

I hope we aren't trying to address a kid that has raced three years in Jr Honda, but in the fourth year they turned 9 two months before they season ended so they couldn't run for the championship.  That driver should have been moved to Sr at the beginning of the year if they wanted to run for a championship.

My son's teammate is a perfect example of a driver we should try to help with this rule change.  He had only a handful of Jr Honda races before the beginning of this season even though he turned 9 with two races left at our home track.  At the beginning of the year we had to decide between Sr Honda or Jr Honda and it was a tough decision.  We didn't feel comfortable throwing him into Sr Honda after only a few competitive races so we raced him in Jr Honda pretty much knowing he would have to skip the last few races which meant his chances of winning the championship were almost none.  

We should try to help drivers that get a late start, because if we don't some will duck out of the sport once they jump into Sr Honda because it is so tough, but at the same time we shouldn't open it up for other kids to stick around and race a lower division just to collect stickers when they could be competitive enough to move up.

Sorry so long...but I hope that better explains my stance on this topic.
Logged

Scott Freitas
Patriot Motorsports Inc.
actireman
Rookie
*
Posts: 12


« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2010, 10:20:50 AM »

I understood before, I don't agree. Meaningless wins don't exist. When you win a race that means you beat everyone there. Some races have the best in the country there, some have have very few. My son loves every checkered flag, and he has never told me that was a meaningless race dad. Maybe you should start looking thru your sons eyes, you will probably see something way different.
Mike Clancy
Logged
sprintcar39
National Champion
****
Posts: 309


Rankine Racing 39


WWW
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2010, 11:22:37 AM »

My Thoughts -

The problem is "racing" for "points". And we race for points and wins.

You HAVE to run for points to get people to attend all the races.

So there is really two issues here. Racing for fun/wins and racing for points/championships. The age cutoff effects both of these issues.

I also agree that if the date is moved it just moves the issue to another date.

It is very cool to see the amount of good constructive posts and comments on this subject and many others on the USAC .25 forum.
Logged

Eric Rankine
USAC Director of Competition
NWOQMRA - USAC .25
USAC - HPD Midget - Midwest Series
USAC National Midget - Spike/Esslinger
sfreitas20
Triple Crown Champion
*****
Posts: 525



WWW
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2010, 11:25:39 AM »

It is funny you should say that because I am looking at it through my son's eyes.  As a 7 year old he had a great year this year even though it was his first full season of competitive racing.  Winning the Gen Next race in Tampa with 4 of the top 5 drivers in the National points in the field was one of his proudest moments as it should be.  Had there been some other drivers there that turned nine during this season, he might not have experienced that.  Letting 9 year olds stay in Jr for a fourth season of competitive racing will cost 6 and 7 year olds wins because a 9 year old with three seasons of competitive racing should be moved up and I don't think that is right for the sport!

Again it all depends on what you are trying to achieve...
Logged

Scott Freitas
Patriot Motorsports Inc.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5
  Send this topic  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!