USAC Racing Forum

General Chat => Point .25 => Topic started by: nancyboy on October 03, 2011, 07:47:03 AM

Title: QMA Crap
Post by: nancyboy on October 03, 2011, 07:47:03 AM
Its seems funny that the same National Board that doesnt even follow their own rules by handing out membership terminations without a hearing that we are entilted to can send out a bull**** letter such as this.


October 1, 2011

Members of Central Indiana QMA
C/o Mr. Jason Thomas
5749 North Vinton Hills Drive
Fairland, IN 46126

Dear CIQMA Members,
        I am writing this letter to reassure you, the members of CIQMA, that you and your club remains under the sanctioning body of Quarter Midgets of America until you, the members decide differently. The decision of your former board members to change your sanctioning body was done without the input or the vote of you, the membership.  The outcome of which sanctioning body you chose should be your choice. With that in mind, Quarter Midgets of America has retained legal council to insure that you will have a choice on your destiny. Upon investigation of the actions that have transpired over the past few weeks it is overly apparent that the club’s best interest was not paramount. It is unfortunate for all that a simple membership vote per the clubs by-laws, which could be done at a regular membership meeting, could have solved these issues.
The facts simply are as follows:
The racing charter contract with Quarter Midgets of America is still in effect until 12/31/2011.

The members from the board of directors that attempted to use their position to directly break the code of conduct of QMA have been removed as members of Quarter Midgets of America. Their actions have been deemed detrimental to the organization and club, thus their membership has been revoked.  In addition, please read your QMA membership contract, page two specifically.

The president, Jason Thomas, will call a membership meeting and elect Board of Director members as required by your by-laws.

If the membership desires a vote of intent to change the sanctioning body for CIQMA for the 2012 racing season they can decide for themselves per the bylaws.
 Additionally, I would like to clear up some misconceptions. The bank account that CIQMA has is the club’s money.  I want to point out that the money in that account was generated by QMA members under the sanctioning body of QMA. Your alumni base is strong in CIQMA, so don’t hesitate to ask their opinion on these matters, as they helped raise this money for your QMA club.  Another misconception is that QMA just goes around removing members as they please. Under the sanctioning body of Quarter Midgets of America there are actions expected of the National, Regional, and Local officers to uphold the rules and regulations of the corporation. When the officers use their influence to avert from the vision of the corporation, they fall under the scrutiny of the organization’s code of conduct. QMA has had many clubs change sanctioning bodies without any of their members having membership revoked. You must ask yourself as members, what was the urgency of this decision mid season? I would like you to ask any of the other sanctioning bodies exactly how many tracks they have built from the bottom up? Your track at CIQMA was built by members following the same mission statement that has been in effect for the past 50 years. Families that believed in QMA, joined QMA, raced and worked to improve QMA, QMA members whose hard work and dedication raised money and made improvements for the future of QMA. Members who wish to fall under a different sanctioning body should ask that sanctioning body to build them a new track and build their own future there, don’t you think?

In conclusion, the Quarter Midgets of America’s mission statement has been and will continue to be “. . . to create and maintain a clean, safe, healthy sport, which may be enjoyed by all family members in a close relationship with good sportsmanship toward all.” Quarter Midget racing is the only type of racing we promote. For fifty years, all officers from the national level down to the local level have dedicated themselves to do what is best for our children and to teach them true sportsmanship. We do not promote any other form of racing. Our belief is to give all members the choice if they wish to pursue whatever different form of racing when they decide to graduate or retire from QMA. If your family decides that they will not pursue any other racing ventures it is our hope that the lessons in sportsmanship, leadership, and family bonding will help them in whatever endeavor they choose.

        I am hopeful the members of the CIQMA club that have gotten caught up in this are not punished anymore-they just want their kids to race. If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact me (215) 801-3771.


Richard Tisone

Richard Tisone
President, Quarter Midgets of America

Joe Miller

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: TQ97 on October 04, 2011, 06:54:46 AM
Mini Indy board followed its by laws.....Did qma when they changed the RCP and eliminated Jr. Honda as a class for 2012?  The answer would be no....

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: Walker23 on October 04, 2011, 08:06:44 AM (
Not seeing where QMA has any say in this matter.

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: nancyboy on October 04, 2011, 12:51:11 PM
you would think QMA owns the track by reading mr Tisones letter

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: clouse55 on October 04, 2011, 02:47:18 PM
 Thats the problem..........They think they do!!!  Been shown over and over again. 

My question is:  Why wasnt Ziggy, Tisone and Toby kicked out for life for visiting the USAC offices last winter???????   LMAO!! 

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: QMMOM2 on October 05, 2011, 04:48:24 PM
Why didn't QMA act like this when Lansing went USAC?

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: sprintcar39 on October 06, 2011, 08:38:04 AM
Rich Tisone is clueless !!!   Many of us have watched over the past several years as he destroys QMA. Ziggy and the entire board should change the way they do business and maybe QMA can survive?

His letter in this post is nothing but smoke and mirrors.  What a shame.

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: QMAor4LIFE!!!! on October 06, 2011, 09:11:32 PM

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: Swartz on October 06, 2011, 11:18:16 PM
(UK) IPA: /kluː.ləs/
Rhymes: -uːləs
clueless (comparative more clueless, superlative most clueless)
Lacking knowledge or understanding; uninformed.
Synonyms :naive :ignorant
Antonyms :clueful :informed
lacking knowledge or understanding

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: ogracing on October 07, 2011, 09:47:21 AM
ok so let me get this straight by canceling the rest of the races for this year is putting the kids first and how does qma have any say over a track they don't own and property they don't own
but this is how qma wants the board to react

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: Swartz on October 07, 2011, 10:32:53 AM
I think you would find all you need to know in the club bank statements. Notice the clubs that tend to stay local and have no large events have gotten no grief, or notice even, when thy switch while clubs that tend to host large events and generate funds for their club get a full press from QMA. Maybe I'm just being cynical.

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: sprintcar39 on October 07, 2011, 11:41:37 AM
Okay. - let's look at this
QMA BOD can make changes in anyway they see fit and with NO membership input at all.

The Mini Indy BOD does the same thing and the are told they can't do that?


Rich, Ziggy and the board use the EXCUSE that they are making choices that are for the good of QMA.

So why can't the Mini Indy BOD do the same thing and follow the examples that the QMA BOD does everyday ???

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: magjagmotorsports on October 07, 2011, 01:10:06 PM
The fact remains that QMA is STILL only a sanctioning body. They do not own or have any authority over individual clubs. QMA keeps asking how many clubs has USAC built from the ground up. The relevant response to that is that only the clubs have built their tracks. QMA did not do it. QMA was for many years the only choice for organized QM racers so yes, many tracks/clubs were formed under their banner, but that does not mean that QMA owns them. Now there are more sanctioning body choices and QMA plans to BULLY those that want to leave the QMA membership/sanctioning body.
QMA has and will continue to use these tactics when they feel it benefits them. The important thing for everyone to remember is that neither QMA or USAC has the ability to control a QM club. All clubs are individual entities within their individual states. The club boards are elected to run those clubs in the best interest of the club, not the best interest of individuals in those clubs or even the sanctioning body.

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: nancyboy on October 07, 2011, 01:18:24 PM
Good point Eric. The one big difference is we do have input from membership in the form of 30+ unsolicted votes for USAC that are time and date stamped. They want everyone to think that we are just pushing this on everyone for our own benefit and that is simply not the case. The decision to suspend all activities at the track was actually made by the fairgrounds. we were all prepared to race on 10-1 and 10-2 but found that all of the locks had been changed and all of the USAC stuff had been destroyed. the race format had been taken out of the moscore program the week before. we felt like if we showed up to attempt to race that weekend we would have been faced with a showdown and a potentially ugly situation. rather than subject the kids to that we agreed that suspending racing would be the best for all until this thing is resolved


Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: Indy360 on October 07, 2011, 03:21:36 PM
The choice to not race was a good one. I agree QMA has no right to bully any club that wants to switch to USAC. I just don't understand why there was no vote if you had the votes. You could have still taken your board vote based on the vote of the membership. Wouldn't this all be over if it was done differently? It seems as though the other side just wants a vote. My son and I just want to race!

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: gtracer on October 07, 2011, 03:51:41 PM
So was it the NBOD changing locks, and also wiped the program, or a member that opposes the switch to USAC.
Or most likely nobody got caught and nobody is talking

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: nancyboy on October 07, 2011, 04:55:25 PM
the biggest factor in the decision not to have an official membership vote was that we had seen this all before. the majority of the board was around in 08 when this all happened the first time and it was not a simple matter of letting everyone cast their vote. the number of people that attended the meeting in 08 voiceing their opinion and casting their votes either in person or by proxy was probably double the number of people that were at the track racing on a weekly basis. people were disrespected and friendships were broken. since we have followed the rules and done everything in accordance with our by-laws and have met this much resistance what makes everyone think that having the membership vote would be any different? the only difference is the club would once again be torn in half. did we make the right decision? that will always be open for debate but we think it was the best for the overall good for the club and its members. Is switching sanctioning bodies the right decision? only time will tell but we along with the majority of membership feel that this is the best direction for the club


Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: Indy360 on October 07, 2011, 07:03:09 PM
I do respect your thought process but at the end of the day we aren't racing. So in my opinion it wasn't handled correctly. No offense but opening your post with "QMA crap" just fuels the fire and makes it less likely that some of the members that have a different opinion will come back and race at Mini-Indy. People on the QMA side have their own opinion and we should respect that. Just as they should respect the USAC point of view.

To be fair your 30+ emails aren't in black and white. Unless your going to post them for people to see how are they supposed to take that as fact? The phone survey was done by someone with an obvious bias but the only thing that people actually saw with their own eyes was the special meeting where the board voted. Going by the meeting you would have to say that QMA had more supporters.

I'm not here to question your beliefs or the actual number of members on either side. I just wish the board would have thought this through a little further. Maybe waited until the season was over? Actually thought about how the other side would view the way it was being handled. At least then our children would still be racing and you guys could fight it out in the off season when snow is on the ground.


Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: Swartz on October 07, 2011, 08:37:40 PM
Been through this. It is not a question of a "USAC" point of view versus a "QMA" point of view. It is a question of weather QMA owns the clubs and facilities built and maintained by clubs seperatly incorporated because they pay a sanction fee to QMA. The answer is NO. Destruction of personal property and personal threats that amount to denying children the chance to participate as a strongarm tactic is reprehensable and perhaps criminal.

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: A Rod on October 09, 2011, 09:32:43 PM
Indy 360,
It was voted on by the BOD to change at the end of the year. A couple of people did not like that so 4 code of conducts were given to each board member that wasnt named Jason Thomas or Mike Sheldon. Even board members that obstained. So what is in the best interest of Mini Indy is not in the best interest of QMA and you Kick the members out of QMA. Jason wants to change the rules to fit himself and causes the track to be closed down by changing locks elegally and its the BOD fault? We could have finished the year as it was suposed to be. Do not tell me if the club would have just voted it would be all fine now. Jason, Heather, Mike, and Scott Howes would have tried to keep stirring the pot and we would be in same position. Emails going out to try and "persuade" people to QMA. Their argument is weak and not in the best interest of Mini Indy but region 4. Mini Indy will lose money this year and if was to stay QMA it would continue to lose money in the future. QMA offers no help to the region or club. USAC atleast is willing to try.

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: divit on October 09, 2011, 11:28:18 PM
A Rod is spot on.  The BOD thought this through for a long time and had significant debate on the best approach to try to make sure those who supported USAC weren't subjected to bullying, threats, and the possibility that their kids couldn't race (due to QMA's questionable actions to prior members). 

Joe is not going to post the 30+ emails because the exact reason the BOD handled the situation they way they did was to protect those who were concerned about friendships, and bullying, so he isn't going to post them...but I know the BOD was very concerned about how many current racing families wanted USAC vs. QMA. 

I'm sorry, but a member who hasn't raced in 5 years and isn't living with our car count issues shouldn't have any say in the direction the club wants to take to try to improve.  However, I can tell you that the BOD did count their views and it still doesn't change the majority view.  The rules are very clear, the BOD followed the rules (funny part is that it was pointed out before this process that the BOD was not following the rules by the same people who are complaining that there should be a vote). 

You talk about the meeting, there were 6-7 vocal supporters of QMA when even if you just count the BOD members who voted for USAC, those supporters are out voted...another statistic for you, Mini-Indy has been averaging 32-34 cars per show, by banning the 8 BOD members, you take 19 cars out of the 32 that cannot race.  HOW IS THAT PRODUCTIVE??  This weekend there were 22 cars that went to Kokomo from Mini-Indy and that doesn't include 2 BoD members' cars...again that is over 2/3rds the cars that have been actively running at Mini-Indy...How can you say this is the wrong thing to do. 

A small vocal minority of people who care about a sanctioning body more than their own club have caused this.  There were and are very good reasons for the timing of the process and those against USAC would rather take Mutually Assured Destruction vs. accepting that the club needed to go in a different direction.  So here we are with friendships lost, kids upset, and now lawyers involved because of the small vocal minority.  Yes, there is a group of people that want to stay QMA, but they are not the majority, and as a wise Mini-Indy member said, our club is too dysfunctional to actually hold a vote that would be representative, let alone fair.     

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: Indy360 on October 10, 2011, 12:20:10 PM
I’m not saying that going to USAC sanction is the wrong thing to do. I never have. It’s not about that. The point is the board members want the members to take these statistics/opinions as fact because they said it so it must be true. In no way do I feel that Joe should post those emails. I just don’t think that we should take them as fact because he said so. I don’t think that we should take the phone survey that Paul conducted as fact because he said so. Would any of this hold water anywhere else? The car count at Mini-Indy is a valid argument. Although this 32-34 number is a guess (if it wasn’t it would be an exact number) it is verifiable. I can accept that! You say that there were only 6-7 vocal members of QMA and would be out voted. And why should we take this as fact because you say so?

The Mini-Indy by-laws state that the BOD are the ones with the ultimate vote on keeping or changing the sanctioning body. I’m not debating this! I feel that all members of the club deserve a vote and to be heard on this issue. That is my opinion but I do understand your argument that the members that haven’t raced don’t deserve a vote. I am simply saying that at the very least take a silent vote of the members that have at least raced one race at Mini-Indy this year. It would be very easy to get a list of those members and the ones that want to vote can do so. At least then you would have some facts to base the BOD vote on.

There is no doubt that taking out the BOD cars would not be good for Mini-Indy. I don’t want this in any way shape or form. But did the BOD do anything wrong? On the back of the QMA membership form it say that all members are subject to the by-laws, rules, etc of the local club and national QMA. In the QMA rulebook is says that members can’t do anything that is detrimental to QMA or hinder the very existence of QMA. As far as I know to be members of CIQMA you must be a member of QMA. Do you guys feel the actions of the BOD are detrimental to QMA? Why has no one brought this up? I’m no lawyer but this would give someone a reason to file a COC wouldn’t it?

You guys act as though all these arguments, concerns and opinions don’t go both ways. I personally feel that USAC can be sold on its merits and not have to slam QMA. Why are people that don’t have the same opinion made to feel like idiots? These emotional arguments and assumptions are faceless. Give them something they can wrap their hands around based on something that is verifiable.

Everyone knows that Jason is a huge QMA supporter but I’m confused why he is the villain. He has a different point of view than the majority of the BOD. Some would argue he, along with Mike, have done more for this club over the last few years than the rest of the board members combined. Don’t you feel he at least deserves our thanks? Please show me something that shows that Jason would not honor a vote for USAC from the membership and I will feel differently. Until then I will continue to show him respect and appreciation for what he has done. The only thing I see him fighting for is a vote.

I respect all of the different opinions that everyone has. But that is all they are. Once again all over this and other forums people say things as though they are facts. Accuse people of things with nothing to back it up. Both sides have sent out emails to try to sway the other side. To say that its just QMA supporters is not fair. What was the USAC press release sent out for? What about the latest email from Paul?

In my opinion the board members could have easily got this through the right way. Acquire facts for both USAC and QMA. Present these facts (not opinions) to the members and taken a silent vote. You don’t even have to debate it! Then the board could have taken their vote to make it official. Could QMA kick them out for this? Were members kicked out in Lansing? What about Terre Haute? What about in 2008 in Mini-Indy. QMA had no grounds to kick anyone out in all of these cases. They obviously feel that in this case the national rules and by-laws have not been followed as agreed upon by signing the membership form. Do they have a case? Why did we even give them a reason to take a second look at the way it was hanndled? That, in my opinion, is why our children are not racing at Mini-Indy.

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: Swartz on October 10, 2011, 12:56:53 PM
I saw nothing in the Mini Indy bylaws that said you had to be a QMA member to join. The only thing in the QMA bylaws that applies is the NBOD can rescind the charter of a club that they feel has been "detrimental to the sport". In the past the tactic has been to throw out the memberships of anyone who does not support QMA or use the threat of doing it. Basicly blackmailing you with the kids chance to compete. Make no mistake. In past club votes people from QMA have been present taking names off of supposed blind votes and revoking memberships on that bassis. There is no reason the Mini Indy kids could not be racing now. If Indy is not an option I'm sure one of the other tracks would loan their facility. I know it wouldnt be Indy but it would be better than this.

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: nancyboy on October 10, 2011, 01:08:04 PM
If what you say is true 360, I will print out the votes, blackout names and email addresses and give them to you, Jason and anyone else that wants to see them and then this is all over right? Probably not because everyone will then just say i sent myself 30+ emails

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: Indy360 on October 10, 2011, 02:28:54 PM
Swartz, You are correct that it doesn't say you must be a QMA member but please name me ONE member over the life span of Mini-Indy that has not been. If you don't have to be I want my QMA portion of my membership back. Once again I must ask. Why weren't members kicked out of the examples that I  used? Just trying to show you there are examples on both sides not just yours.

Joe, Not sure what to say to that. Obviously I have offended you and I'm sorry for that. In no way did I mean to do that. Can we then take emails from Jason with blacked out names and email addresses and take that as fact? The answer to that should be and os
Did I say that I'm a USAC supporter?

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: nancyboy on October 10, 2011, 02:55:10 PM
360. Not offended at all. Im just not willing to give out names unless a man in a black robe says so. when i vote for my local government officials or the president i get the priviledge of pulling a curtain behind me and i am going to afford membership the same privacy

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: Indy360 on October 10, 2011, 03:13:13 PM
Sorry for the typo. Should say should be and is no.

I support USAC as a whole I just don't support the way this has been handled. Enough of the he said she said stuff and use facts to back up your position. Please tell the whole story not just what benefits your side. Seems pretty simple to me.

It all comes down to Jason feels the membership should have a vote and the board doesn't feel that way. Your letter from QMA says that if the members get a vote that none of you get kicked out of QMA. You guys decided to not give the members a vote and now here we are.

I'm just giving you my opinion based on information that can be backed up.Am I not? You still haven't given any answers to any of my questions. Is it because I disagree on how this was all handled. I would hope not. If we all just blame the other side how is all this going to be worked out?

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: Indy360 on October 10, 2011, 03:22:01 PM
Just saw you r post Joe. Actually in my opinion you havent given the members that choice to privately vote. Your telling them "I know better just trust me". You could be right in the actual decision. I have never argued that. Just that it could of been handled differently.

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: nancyboy on October 10, 2011, 03:33:48 PM
360 you can call me anytime and i will answer any question that you have to the best of my ability. i never once have told anyone to trust me that i know better i simply ask for a choice of sanctioning bodies. truth of the matter is that i dont know better i am just stating my opinion as are you. based on the information that was given to me and the information that i found on my own usac is the better choice for mini indy at this time

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: sfreitas20 on October 10, 2011, 05:16:27 PM
From an outsider looking in that doesn't know Joe, Jason or Indy360, I will say just what I said on the QMA forum.

It appears to me the Mini-Indy board acted 100% within the club by-laws and now the QMA board is wasting QMA members money on lawyers to fight this.  Like others then commented over there, instead of trying to stop Mini-Indy from leaving, they should be finding out why they left and try to improve their organization so the next club might not leave.

From reading your posts Indy360, it sounds like if the board did do a silent vote, you would question the validity of it anyway because it was silent and all the names wouldn't be revealed.  I hear what you are saying that you wish it was done a different way, but that isn't what the by-laws say for the Mini-Indy club.  Just like Al Gore could have been president if the popular vote counted in the United States, but it doesn't...

Elected officials have a job to do and that is to act in the best interest of the majority of their constituents, in this case the kids and families of Mini-Indy, not in the best interest of QMA or USAC.  It sounds like some of the members of the board at Mini-Indy held up their end of the bargain, while others did not.

Just my two cents...

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: Swartz on October 10, 2011, 07:09:39 PM
For the record, I don't have a "side" in this. The existance of QM clubs predates both the sanctioning bodies and there are a lot of clubs that are members of neither. Choosing to have sanctioned races, of which there are only 3 in QMA, is a decison a club can make but is not a prerequisite to exist. A lot of us wanted to be able to host both sanctioning bodies at our tracks which would have expanded the opportunities for everyone but QMA would have none of it. They wanted it their way or no way. So, here we are.

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: Indy360 on October 10, 2011, 07:23:22 PM
Scott, I agreeI that QMA needs to figure out why clubs are leaving. It is absolutely true that the board members are to act in the best interest of the club. But doesn't our board members have to follow certain guidelines? Our government does. Though I would totally disagree in the board just taking a vote without any input from the members they could have off collected data, notified all members (which didn't happen in this case) in the proper amount of time before the meeting, listened to whatever members had to say and then vote.

This is not what happened. The board called members in favor of USAC, sent out emails in favor of USAC, held a meeting and did a sales pitch in favor of USAC and then voted. Afterwards they held a meeting and didn't notify any of the members. If they would of just given the pros and cons of each they wouldn't have been in the predicament they found themselves in.

You are wrong about me not being ok with a private vote. Why would I not be. Only one member per family gets a ballot and then you vote. Have Jason and Paul do a count in front of the members and then we're done. Board takes the official vote and then we go racing.

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: Indy360 on October 10, 2011, 07:33:13 PM
Swartz, That would be neat to hold both USAC and QMA races at the same track. For Mini-Indy that would be great. For QMA  to not allow this is wrong in my book. I personally do not care what it ultimately  ends up as long as the majority of the members want it and the minority feels it was done properly. I think this is easily accomplished. Some obviously do not.

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: sfreitas20 on October 10, 2011, 07:45:56 PM
"This is not what happened. The board called members in favor of USAC, sent out emails in favor of USAC, held a meeting and did a sales pitch in favor of USAC and then voted."

To use your words and play devil's advocate here, do you know these to be fact?  Did you sit through all the phone calls and witness all the emails sent to know they only sent them to members in favor of USAC?

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: sfreitas20 on October 10, 2011, 07:59:08 PM
For QMA to not allow this is wrong in my book.

Funny, I just re-read this and a comment made earlier about how actions detrimental to QMA are reason for banishment from QMA.  Makes me wonder why the National Board members in QMA that refused to allow dual charters when USAC first started were not banned for "Actions detrimental to QMA"? :)

Indy360, I do sympathize with what you are going through.  Our club was taken from us without a member or even a board vote.  The owners of the property that our track is on, decided the track was going USAC and just showed up at a club board meeting to inform the board that the club was being folded and they were now running it as a business and not as a non-profit club.  At that point we all pretty much just decided to show up for the next race and as it turns out, our kids could care less whether it was QMA or USAC, they still raced their guts out just the same and played with their friends just the same.

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: divit on October 10, 2011, 08:55:45 PM
I really appreciate you comments 360.  I agree that the best option would have been for a fair vote.  You may not agree or believe the members who were around 3 years ago (I don't know if you were or not), but they will tell you that the vote that was held 3 years ago ruined friendships, led to significant animosity, and led to several families leaving Mini-Indy.  The BOD tried to avoid that situation this time...obviously the same issues will occur here, BUT the only people officially on record are the BOD.  Other members have the luxury of not having to answer to those who feel they can manipulate members to vote their way.  A silent vote would be great, but again, this has become way too emotional and personal. 

I would like to address the your comment on the CoC pertaining to the paperwork that was signed.  I would agree that the Board violated that "rule".  However, it is a bogus rule.  It is put there for QMA to protect themselves, a club could never change a sanctioning body if board members (or even regular members) couldn't speak to the club about their ideas for bettering the club. I would suggest if you have not had the opportunity to talk to BOD members and regular member who supported QMA sanctioning last time and now support USAC sanctioning.

I would also challenge your comment that the data was not presented fairly or in a timely manner.  The committee that did the study was not made up all members who were pre-disposed to be USAC supporters.  All the data they accumulated was given to the members.  That data was presented as objectively as possible...yes the data favored USAC, but that was the data.  If approached objectively, it was pretty compelling.  QMA supporters tried to say that the data was incorrect...there may have been small errors in math or assumptions, but from a high level, it would be difficult to change the story...A couple other the backup data, when QMA was asked what they would to to help promote the club, their answer was that they tell people they have been doing this for 50 years and  they have coloring books.  USAC discussed using their promotion department, having the kids at the 500 festival parade, and having our track be the test track for anything they need to test.  Let's see 500 parade or Coloring Books?!?!?!?  Also, when asked what QMA was doing to lower costs, they said that they book their own travel to Vegas.  Last time I checked I can book my own trips and it doesn't save me any money...How about reviewing the need for the Vegas boondoggle?  USAC brought in a spec tire to keep costs down and is looking at stamping tires at all National events to keep racing costs down.  Theses are just a couple examples of the data the committee brought to the BOD and the members. 

In my discussions with QMA supporters I was clear that I was ok that we could disagree, but when they went after the BOD's kids, I believe they crossed a line.  No BOD member ever said or proposed "hey let's not let the QMA supporter's kids race".

But...QMA has Coloring Books to help save Mini-Indy

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: shanker on October 10, 2011, 10:40:16 PM
OMG !!! Really, is this what everyone does is bash this person and that person and this organization,that organization.. People let's get real here and think about what's most important .. The kids that are racing !! Personally if your unhappy with the change then go do something else. Trust me I'm fairly new into quartermidget racing itself, but this sounds like bunch of politics griping back and forth. Go to DC if that's what you like to do they sure would love to have some more help.( maybe that's why car count is down ) our government.  Let's ask our selves a question why are so many clubs going to USAC!! I have seen 2 clubs in last month go to USAC from QMA, and there has been nothing said or wrote about them... So why mini-Indy?? I don't race this club never have but when USAC takes over I will be there for sure. Let's get real and be concerned about a place for kids to race.. Way to go James and the USAC staff for working hard to bring racing back to Indy...

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: Indy360 on October 11, 2011, 05:13:22 PM
"This is not what happened. The board called members in favor of USAC, sent out emails in favor of USAC, held a meeting and did a sales pitch in favor of USAC and then voted."

I wasn't trying to say that only pro-USAC members were called by the board member,  I was trying to say the board member that called the members was in favor of USAC. After re-reading that I understand I wrote it incorrectly. All you need to do is call Paul who did the calling and ask him to verify this. Emails were sent from board members and voiced there wanting to switch to USAC. these are readily available if you do some research. And the meeting is on video so I'm confident that what I've stated are facts.

Divot, The way this has been handled has caused more damage than 3 years ago. "It has ruined friendships, led to significant animosity, and led to several families leaving Mini-Indy". But worst of all we aren't racing and this whole thing might go to court. either way this ends up some members aren't going to come back. How then can we argue that this was done the right way?

Regarding the rule that you admit wasn't followed because it is a bogus rule. Your reasoning was that "It is put there for QMA to protect themselves, a club could never change a sanctioning body if board members (or even regular members) couldn't speak to the club about their ideas for bettering the club." I must ask. Have members of every club that has switched or tried to switch to USAC been kicked out of QMA? Just saw were LSQMA switched to USAC. Did memebrs get kicked out of QMA from that club? I really don't know the answer to that. I would argue that if it was done by the book nobody would have gotten kicked out. Maybe the board should have called clubs that have switched (an not gotten the boot) and asked them how it was done.

You say that small errors and assumptions may have been made in presenting data to the members. Why? All the information is readily available from past history at the track and from USAC events. To say that some data may be wrong makes me wonder what that is. Did you inform the members of these mistakes?

In an earlier post I stated that I didn't want anyones kids kicked out of the club and therefore some kids not being able to race. That would be horrible! I don't believe that any members of Mini-Indy made that choice. You admittingly didn't follow the rules and therefore some members (not me!) felt the only way to get you to slow down and talk was to file a COC. You had the choice to race, all you had to do was let the members vote and no one would lose their QMA membership. Even if the vote went USAC.

Shanker, I have the same frustration as you. This was done just like D.C. That's my complaint! You make another good point about what is important "the kids". Some of the members want to race at Mini-Indy. That's the only place they want to race for reasons like time, money and the track itself. If this was done differently they would be racing whatever way it turned out. If it was done in a fair way and switched to USAC then so be it. If QMA members didn't want to race after that then that's on them. The majority of the BOD are traveling members. Mini-Indy is just another track they race at. For the BOD, in my opinion, this hasn't affected them. They children were still racing this weekend weren't they? In my opinion the reaason you hear about Mini-Indy and not the two other clubs that have switched is simple. The way it was handled!

I see the reasons that the BOD wanted to switch to USAC. You don't have to sell me on it. That's not my point. It's not anyones point that I know of. It is the way it was handled. The members felt that they didn't have a voice, that no one would listen to them. Sure they got to stand up at the meeting and talk but as stated in an earlier email that unless the membership expressed "resounding opposition to a USAC" they were going to vote for USAC. to me that means that they were willing to vote for USAC even if the majority of the members didn't want it. Maybe not if 90% of the membership wanted QMA but what about 60%? How about 70%? Seriously what does that mean?

Most members don't care what sanctioning body that Mini-Indy ends up with (me included). But "does the ends justify the means"? To me the answer is no.

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: shanker on October 11, 2011, 05:58:32 PM
Let's start another blog for people to complain at,( to me this is just turning current or future families that wanna race and get into quartermidget racing away from the sport. Again its not about the parents its "ALL ABOUT THE BOYS & GIRLS" that wanna compete in a racing enviroment. So lets get over it and move on..
360 looks like to me your fighting an uphill battle, sorry for that. If true racers will remember when Cart & IRL split how good was that for the racing industry. NOT TO GOOD. Truly this is what happening in quartermidget racing as well,(QMA vs USAC) so if parents dont get rid of there egos and just go have fun with their kids its gonna get worse before it gets better.. Hope everyone that is reading all these comments made on this site will sit back and really think whats best for their family and go do it and enjoy it.  :o

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: RBurns17 on October 11, 2011, 07:52:33 PM
In an earlier post I stated that I didn't want anyones kids kicked out of the club and therefore some kids not being able to race. That would be horrible! I don't believe that any members of Mini-Indy made that choice. You admittingly didn't follow the rules and therefore some members (not me!) felt the only way to get you to slow down and talk was to file a COC. You had the choice to race, all you had to do was let the members vote and no one would lose their QMA membership. Even if the vote went USAC.

There is nothing in a bylaws that say they have to let the members vote.....

I can tell you, no matter what anyone says, they didn't let the members vote to avoid the corruption of the 08 vote. Anyone who denies that there was corruption is fooling themselves. Now, you're seeming angry at the politicking on behalf of some of the board members, but the president is doing the same thing on the other side. Emails have been posted of a couple of officers on the other side planning to sway members to the QMA side. That's just part of it. If I were you I would be more worried about the fact that former members and other club presidents are calling the shots for Mini-Indy.

There were at least 20 Mini-Indy families at Kokomo this weekend and I don't think a single one of them was pro-QMA. But, I guarantee if you were to pencil in a vote for next week QMA would still get a majority. There weren't that many in 08 that wanted to stay QMA either, but the small but vocal minority, backdoor deals, and threats kept the club QMA. That's just a fact.

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: slowpoke on October 11, 2011, 08:48:25 PM
Why do such a small handful of people in region 4 keep trying to hold onto QMA ? This area is almost completely USAC clubs and doing very well I might add. The racing is some of the best I have ever seen every week at any of the tracks here and everyone seems to be enjoying themselves. I sure am glad our club is USAC so we dont have to deal with the ignorance that we read about here in this thread. Most of the USAC clubs here have a higher car count for the weekly races than the remaining region 4 QMA clubs have for their regionals. So why wouldn't the remaining QMA clubs want to race with more cars at the USAC tracks? It only makes sense to be a USAC club here in region 4.  Mini Indy will thrive once again with USAC , I know lots of people that want to go there and race but we are not QMA members and probably wont be any time soon.   

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: outlawqmracer on October 11, 2011, 09:11:45 PM
QMA’s 50th Anniversary ~ 11-18-2011
Re-conciliation or Re-declaration of Independence
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes;

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security…

To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

1) THE GOAL of QMA for the past 50 years has been “to build and strengthen the association through unification by conformance to rules and regulations under one jurisdiction.”  I claim the
current and past QMA NBOD did not uphold our By-Laws but basically made up the rules as they went, interpreting them to be used for the betterment of their own political points of view!
2) QMA’s Mission Statement was changed in March of 2009 from it’s original noble purpose which was to strive for a clean, safe, healthy sport which may be enjoyed by ALL in a close relationship with GOOD SPORTSMANSHIP” to “QMA realizes there are other racing organizations out there but”….  Their political points of view have overruled their concern for their members rights they were supposed to protect and out of fear and anger created a beaurocratical nightmare much to the detriment of QMA and it’s membership.

3) The QMA “Code Of Conduct” Statement was re-written from something intended to protect members from physical and sexual abuse, to be used as a weapon against QMA members and their right to free speech by terminating memberships of anyone they claim is “acting in a way detrimental to QMA”. Said suspensions were not in accordance with codes.

4) Election Fraud- A) Nominations for QMA office have been disallowed due to recently imposed deadlines. They didn't even bother to change the bylaws. No one really knows what the stipulations for running for office and such are and if they want to find a reason to allow or disallow something they just come up with one of their Famous “Clarifications”

B) The Election Procedure Guidelines were changed just one and a half months shy of last years’ election.  It  stated, ONLY  members who PAID their 2010 Dues by October 31, 2009 will be allowed to vote for National and Regional positions. Our Charter clearly states that this procedure is illegal and doing so drastically changed the way QMA has done business for the last 50 years. According to California Corporate Code and our QMA By-Laws membership is in good standing through December 31st and members should have been allowed to vote in the past couple of elections as well as this year!  The numbers of members voting in past elections needs to be addressed because there have been so many people defrauded of their voting rights that the current system is incapable of a fair election.  

C)- The changing of the form of balloting from paper to online – without clear & proper notification to membership.
National BOD – Meeting minutes from Nov. Unless the National office hears from you or a member, it will assume that you will be voting online. Members must be validated. Only Art, the webmaster will have access to the voting area. All ballots, paper and electronic, will be sent to the accountant for counting. Will further disenfranchise many voters.

 This procedure was implemented in November with the election just a couple months away. How are voters being made aware of this change out of the racing season? The net result is again that it will cause many more votes to be lost.

D)- The new rules have been orchestrated to restrict who may run for office and to limit the number of voters, so as to affect the outcome of the election. This too is specifically prohibited in our corporate charter.  In the last Quarter Reporter it stated that QMA had a total membership of 2,694.  My question is simply how many of those people received a ballot and voted last year?

5) Sunshine law violations- The NBOD does not properly publish meeting minutes so that the membership is aware of discussions regarding important QMA business, but rather discusses issues amongst only themselves.  They fail to place MANY of the items brought forth by
 members’ onto meeting agendas including but not limited to RCP’s.  These items are summarily dismissed by the National Board, especially if they are not in agreement with the QMA membership further separating themselves from a proper discussion process.

6) Discrimination- NBOD has Suspended and/or restricting memberships and terminating membership without due process. Our corporate charter SECTION 5340-5342 stipulates proper notice be given in all suspensions and the member then has a right to file an appeal. This process has never been proper within QMA. The National board cannot just let in anyone they like and forget about those members’ rights that they don’t personally agree with.

7) Financial Hardship-The cost of recent engine tech updates ie: keyway, flywheel, tech tools, and head replacement, differences in engine platforms and rules from other sanctioning bodies is detrimental to QMA’s original goal to have unified rules across the nation. This is driving members away from QMA and to USAC and Independent Clubs that have not imposed those added costs to their membership.

8) Misappropriation of Funds- Giving far too brief financial statements to the membership, where the members cannot tell what is going on. For instance, Quarter Reporters can not be mailed but time and money is wasted publishing and sending the revised QMA Mission Statement as well as retractions and clarifications to the members giving the NBOD political stance on the happenings of the quartermidget world, at the cost of thousands of dollars, and then in a stroke of genius “to save money” NOT send everyone election ballots.

9) Actions Detrimental to QMA- By restricting membership and terminating members without due process, Hijacking our club by throwing out nominations and RCP’s the BOD does not agree with, Causing members financial hardship with new tech and membership decisions that benefit the NBOD, both politically and financially they have harmed QMA.

10) Making Misleading or False Statements- The QMA NBOD have continuously made false statements both to attain office as well as hold onto it. Examples are in evidence.

QMA Requirements for lawsuit /election process reconciliation:
1)   That all members be allowed to vote in this years election regardless if their memberships are  
renewed by the recently imposed deadline of October 31 or not, and that all members in good standing through Dec. 31 be allowed to vote in elections as per CA Corporate Code.

(2) That a list of those suspended or denied membership for whatever reason be published.
(3) That those suspended or non-renewed members have their rights of notification and of a hearing upheld and according to CA Corp. Code if due-cause not proven be reinstated.

(4) Involve past & current membership – make sure past members who may have been driven away from QMA for whatever reason and would like to re- join QMA have that opportunity, and to ensure their voting rights.

(5) That the National Mission Statement revert back to what it was on November 18th 1960 when QMA was incorporated and the version drafted in March 2009 be completely annulled!

(6) That ALL RCP’s submitted to the National Board by Regions go to vote at the National meeting.

(7) Have a mass outreach effort to anyone involved in quarter midget racing as well as those planning on racing next year and invite them to become members.

(8) That un-approved membership applications and nominations along with their postmarked envelopes be held on file with documentation and to simplify the procedure used in the process.

(9) Have balloting at QMA club meetings as they do in many Region 2 clubs, make said meetings mandatory, and have regional & national officers as well as an independent accountants oversee the process. This would attain the goal of cost control that QMA is trying to achieve and at the same time make sure all members get to cast their vote. The recently imposed online election process is good but there is simply not enough notification given to primarily rely on that system at this time.

(10) That an overseer of the election be appointed for both the nomination and election processes.
Have a fair, honest, open election where 100 percent of members vote and ALL votes count!

(11) That the Quarter Reporter be published monthly and for the content to actually keep the members informed of what the National Boards decisions are. A lot of the trouble within our organization is that the membership is not being communicated with effectively.

(12) That changes to the way QMA does business require amending the By-Laws the same way that changes to anything in the rulebook occur, by vote at the National Meeting or if online elections are held by referendum of the members. That way any major changes will be made public in the beginning of the year and be published in The Short Sheet from said meeting that every member gets yearly with their Rulebook.

(13) To adhere strictly to the QMA Bylaws and Rulebook. Any policies made under the current and former administrations that are not published in either of those documents, should either have a motion to be accepted by membership and included in them or disallowed and completely voided.

(14) To uphold the findings of a recent QMA poll that showed 87 percent of the membership wanted an “open door policy” at its events, where any quarter midget participants could race.

Title: Re: QMA Crap
Post by: Melmo on October 12, 2011, 09:42:45 AM
So mini Indy won't be racing this weekend?