USAC Racing Forum

New to QMs and the debate over USAC and QMA, and wanted to become more educated.  I understand that to be competitive in QMs in the past, you had to invest in several different tires for changing conditions.  I see that USAC has declared that Hoosier will be there spec tire.  Have they also determined that there will be spec compounds at all times, or is it open? If it is open then it seems that to get the advantage you would still have to invest in several different combinations, which is more money. Is that correct or not?  Educate me, as I am looking to join a club in the next few weeks, or maybe we should stick with NCMP and karting.  Happy racing!

It all depends on where you plan on running, 1 track or multiple tracks and where they are located.

For the most part, we only ran Vega Yellows in QMA the last two years on asphalt in Ohio, Indy and MI.  The only “different” tires we ran were the left rear for stagger reasons.  Basically we have about 6 left rear tire/wheel combos all different sizes to get us the stagger we need at any of the 8 tracks we ran at, used them for the last two years so cost isn’t an issue.

I expect USAC to be the same regarding compounds at tracks because many of the tracks are X QMA tracks.

We only ran different compounds when we ran indoors at Columbus or Ft. Wayne and at the Dirt Grand’s, but then again, we ran the Vega Yellows on dirt as well with just as good results as the Dunlap DBW or DCS’s.

Unless you race in varying weather conditions like very cold or very hot weather, the compounds usually stay about the same from track to track.

As for QMA or USAC, it’s all up to which schedule fits best and what tracks are more convenient in my opinion.  They are both racing for Quarter Midgets, if you have the time and money, run them all...

It’s a choice just like everything else.

Chevy or Ford
K-Mart or Wal Mart
Nike or Reebok
Levis or Wrangler
Vanilla or Chocolate

You get the point... ;-)

Scott, thanks for the info.  

Can someone show me the math and the scenario that USAC spec's Hoosier tires are a big cost savings to the racer from what was previously ran.  By reading the prior posts and QM debates, tires are a big issue to the racers.  I, myself like regulations that make the playing field level for all competitors, especially when they are kids trying to learn and gain confidence.  When they start racing for big bucks is when that can change, and operations are businesses.  Spend more, make more.  Happy racing.

We just got our QM in November, and have already been to Columbus, Toledo, and Ft. Wayne.  We will race anything, anywhere, and anytime.  Just tell us what kind of tires to wear and we will be there!! We are enjoying what QMs have to offer, and all of the people involved, whichever flavor, brand, or sanction!  Happy racing. 

From what I have heard (and could be wrong) that it will be a spec brand. IMHO I think this is a good idea, especially in the northern areas where early spring and late fall racing mixed with a rain shower and a hard tire dont mix. Its not like you need to buy 4 different compounds either, you'll have your normal compound that you will run 95% of the time and 1 softer set. I just reitred my 1 set of soft tires that have been ran on 3 different cars for the last 3 years. I also believe for ones that are completly new to racing need this option to learn what different compounds do, this will help a bunch if you decide to continue racing after quarter midgets.
I know you will hear a hundred times that new tires are always faster. With proper note taking, tire care, and a lot of practice, you may find that not to be the case.

We came from a year of karting before quarter midgets. I feel quarter midgets promote quicker thinking and reaction and in the honda classes especially, efficiency. And definately SAFER!! Also if you have ever talked with a driver that has ran karts and quarter midgets and has moved on to other forms of racing, most will tell you nothing prepared them better than running AA.
  
But what do I know......I'm just a dumb farmer!! LOL  

My biggest complaint with the Vega was tire wear.  We got twice the racing out of our Dunlap’s or Hoosiers, which is money saved.  Tire cost between brands is almost identical.

However, when you can bolt on a set of Vegas and pickup 2/10s right off the bat and keep more consistent lap times without them falling off, well, you have to do what’s needed to keep up with everyone else that runs them which sucked because I didn’t have a choice but to follow suit.

A spec tire to me means that everyone else is running the same tire so if the tire is great or if it sucks, we will all be great or suck together.  The spec being Hoosier, well the durability will be better which again is money saved for me.

As for the dumb farmer, don’t let him fool ya, he may not be able to grow any crops but he knows a bit about racing…  ;-)

i think with usac you will save money running hoosier tires because they last longer with a slight fall in performance. vega tires which is the "spec" tire for qma performs well but wear is terrible. vega is not a spec tire for qma but it is the only tire you will run so it might as well be. you should look into other cost between the two sanctioning bodies also. eg. membership cost for family.

I have a set of Hoosiers that we won with in spring and fall, we also started with them indoors and led many laps along with finishing up front with a young driver. Those tires will be on his car this weekend. Vega tires couldn't run 1\4 of those laps. Hey don't be so hard on yourself Clouse55, you provide us with grain and livestock along with fat deer, fat ducks, fat geese and fat turkeys. :P THANK YOU!!!

Hey, clouse you still coming down to watch?Talked to rodney today at concept he said they already got 1' of snow he's 1.5 from yea.That old dumb farmer and his kid looked good at fort wayne.Mut be the corn.

Yep, I'll be there, as long as I dont gell up on the way LOL! The boy is pretty disapointed he cant race, wont get cleared to race till next week. We have around 5'' here but up north with the clipper plus lake effect the next couple days could be interesting. 

Well my little girl has done pretty good this year!!! We couldn't buy new tires every race, or weekend or even every other weekend!!! We would run the tires until they wouldn't hold air no more. But the bad part was the last couple of years we couldn't even go out and practice like we did when we started because we had to save our tires!!! But the guy next door to me is a Hoosier dealer and gave us a set of right sides and that sure put a smile on my little girls face because she got to  practice again. We used A30A's practiced 4 days real hard and race them twice (two full days) and there still good to go!!! Now we lost about 3 tenths from the vega's but the main thing is we'll all be on the same tires this year so it won't matter!!! We plan to run the A30A or A35A for the colder days and the A40A's when it warms up!!! But I do have one question for this year "Are all USAC tracks going to start the track records all over again since we have new tires and the tier 3 motors"?

Don't worry Mr. Clouse I'm in the same boat as you I'm just a dumb Ole hillbilly!!! (Morehead KY).

I dont think any track record should be ever retired. The tier3 120's are just as fast or faster than the tier2's, many track records have been broke this year and some of those have been set on tires other than vega's. After QMA added the restrictor plate in the jr stocks, track records have been broken. When attempts have been made to slow cars down in the past, sooner or later guys get it figured out.   

I agree Clouse. 

IMO, the only time a record should be cleared is if the entire track is reconfigured or rebuilt to a different size/dimension.  This would not include resurfacing.

We can talk about tire wear, lap times, cost and performance all we want but a few months ago i watched a driver bike and flip over the wall and a four foot fence, out into the spectator area and land nose first right where a guy was standing. luckily, he was an adult and got out of the way. this was not a set up error. My point is that those Vegas can perform too well and stick too much. from what i understand, these new tires will be quite a bit safer. that was a goal and that was a main reason for my USAC vote, to get my kid off of those Vegas.

I was there and saw the wreck, my son was in that race and yes it was nasty and thankfully nobody was hurt.

However, I would not go as far as blaming Vega for the flip.  That would be as bad as blaming the chassis, motor etc.  It just doesn’t make sense when you have the same chassis type in the same class running the same tires that don’t bike and others that bike from the first few laps.  That would be a difference in chassis setups.

I will say over and over, the MAJORITY of biking can be resolved by simple chassis adjustments.  Most just prefer to run their cars so tight that they do end up biking and eventually bike over.

I personally choose to NOT have my cars bike and when they do, I make the necessary changes to stop or minimize the biking.


I do have a question though, a car enters the pits to avoid a wreck or because they thought the flagger pointed the black flag at them and they are DQ’d for leaving the racing surface.

However, a car bikes over and flips over the guard rail AND chain link fence, the race is red flagged for a bit while the driver is checked and calmed down but is then allowed to reenter the race only to bike over again?

Didn’t that car also leave the racing surface?  Explain how this doesnt qualify as leaving the racing surface?

i agree scott until you get to the heavier kids. some run out of adjustment as far as loosening the car up, and still fight biking issues.

yeah Scott, i agree that it is usually setup. we have raced with kids like your boy and Cooper for years and never had any trouble. but we are experienced handlers with good, heads up drivers. some of these dad/kid combos aren't quite there yet. i guess i just liked the old Firestone days when an ill handling car just spun out or faded. but technology goes on and these cars get faster. so does the learning curve. i'm lucky though, i run a really tight car but my twelve year old is only 70 lbs. lol

The driver was a light driver like ours in Lt. 160 so the heavy driver issue wouldnt have applied here.  I have heard that the larger drivers do battle with biking a bit more, then again I have seen many that dont bike at all even being larger kids.

Yea, the old spin out days and 1/2 price tire budget was very nice and I look forward to trying the new Hoosiers out...  ;)

Still waiting on seeing some race dates for local tracks, regionals and usac to see what series we plan on running in 09.  I know we want to run the dirt grands again as well as the usac nationals but unsure of what on a weekly basis.

i think everyone is holding their breath waiting on bqmra, but time is running out schedules need to be developing fast. i miss firestone also, so doesnt my bank acct.

I have a serious question about tires. We started in the sport after Vega was introduced, so we have used little else. Burris 33's or YFA's at the indoors, Hoosiers at Terre Haute, but mostly Vega on pavement. So, here is the question. With the introduction of Hoosier as the Spec tire in USAC will there be a significant advantage to running cut tires? And, if the tire is cut what will that do to the longevity? For the most part, people don't cut Vega tires, right? Some do, but from what I've seen it is a limited number of people. Is it possible that having Hoosier as a Spec tire (any Spec tire for that matter) could actually cost more? Let's assume that the cost of a right rear from each manufacturer is relatively the same. You don't have to cut the Vega to be competitive, but you do need to cut the Hoosier. So, tack on $20 to the cost of the RR. After the tire is cut the longevity goes away, so now we are replacing a $70 tire on a regular basis vs a $50 tire.

I am not bashing the Spec tire concept. I am really just trying to better understand cut tires. I've never had tires cut, so I don't have any experience with them. Just wondering if I'll need to have them cut for the USAC events and what that will do to tire life. Either way, we'll be members of QMA and USAC in 2009. See you at the races.

Thank you for your response. 

Having tires cut is an option that some will argue is needed, others do not.  Races are won on cut and uncut tires, same as with balancing the tires and wheels.  That’s another option that costs money.  Just like your motor, depends on how much you want to spend on your program, 400 box stock Honda or 1100, smoker shocks at 75 or Advance at 200 etc.

Everyone will argue about advantages and disadvantages, you just have to choose which ones will actually help you.

I have heard the same about not having to cut Vegas but cutting everything else.  I only have our Burris and Dunlap’s cut and balanced for indoors or the rumbles because the tracks are typically smoother where you would actually notice a smoother rolling tire.  Outdoors I never bothered because of the cost and how much racing you get out of tires outdoors.

Cutting doesn’t take alot of wear off, it just true’s the tires, takes out the lumps...lol

I have heard that Hoosier has made great improvements to their tires in the last year, maybe they won’t need it as much as older ones may have?

The problem with Hoosiers, when we ran them, was repeatability. The tire rollout would change as much as 3/4 inch from tire to tire and they were still changing compounds about every time I bought a set it seemed like. Had to mount the tires and measure final size to gear the car and constantly adjusting setup after hot laps. The wear was good though.

I think cutting COULD be an option on tires that have already been run, done it all the time with stones. I think taking new ones and cutting them for advantages would be so slim you might as well pee in the wind. But thats just my view.    

Well crap! Now I have to calbrate my peeinthewind-O-meter.

Agree Swartz, we had to shrink and grow our Dunlaps and Hoosiers before to get the same size because they never were the same.

I have heard from a few guys out west that are running now that the Vegas are becoming terrible on size and performance consistancy. I got to believe them because I had a couple 6.0's and 6.5's do the same thing. When you looked at the inner carcus they were different than most.

Scott are you runnin tomarrow or are you gonna be smart and stay in the house where its warm?

cut tires could work better at indoors but I've never bothered to do it. too many other variables in QM racing..weather, track temp, first lap pile up, tired driver who stayed up too late texting his girlfriend...usually the combination of a good car, good set up, smart driver and the tire of the week is enough to be competitive. i just like to see what the kids can do. we've all been beat by the kid on old tires who just pulled his car out of the back of dads pickup. gotta love it

Scotty is wrestling this weekend so we wont be there racing but I may swing by tomorrow night to help out if were done in time.  Just got back from there picking up Scotts car and it appears that many chose to stay warm.