USAC Racing Forum

General Chat => Point .25 => Topic started by: race2win8 on March 26, 2011, 07:24:45 AM

Title: QMA Does it again
Post by: race2win8 on March 26, 2011, 07:24:45 AM
QMA must have a death wish with there latest act of stupidity!!!!!   How can you have the National tech director write the set of rules for the animal engine platform and do the right thing by allowing milling the Cylinder head in the final draft of the rules to be released and then the NBOD make him change it!!!  How does that work?  Most of the QMA memebers are wanting an engine that can be ran in QMA or USAC with minimal changes. Thought QMA is a member driven orginzation? Thats there big selling point over USAC. But with the wisdom of the presedent of QMA and Ziggy it was changed against the wishes of the Nat. Tech Director. Might help to have a loaded region 2 board to get it voted down.
 They claim that this move will save the racer money! I call BS on this. Any Engine builder knows that is so far out of line. Several engine builders have posted on here about only adding a minimal cost to the engine with this move and make for a more level playing field for all!
And with Ziggy voting not to allow this proves that he does not have the racers best intrest in mind. How much more can be charged for that special cyl. head. thats at the minimum QMA spec?  We are headed back to the same mentality that the Honda platform is on. Thinking that the low budget racer can go get a engine off the shelf and be competitive. Which in some degree they can with the animal. But without allowing machine work it makes  more of a disparity in all acuality. We all know that there are people that will pay considerably for special parts that a budget racer or even most racers cant justify, Exspecially in this economy.
Glad our club was smart enough to make the change to USAC!!!

Title: Re: QMA Does it again
Post by: esrforfun on March 26, 2011, 11:59:19 AM
This is why people that make a living off of QM racing should not be able to vote on matters that directly effect there bottom line. The price of building a new Animal motor just went up! And the best part is that vote came from someone that is not even a full member of QMA, he is alternet handler, and seems to have been for the last two years, if you look at the rule book he should have not even been alowed to run for the office. You have to be a full member. As big as a problem as that is, the bigger problem is that the R2 director has rewriten the COC rules and you can now be sent home for misbehaving without a COC hearing. Who defines this? One person? Isn't that why we have the COC? This means that if someone on your local board has a issue with you, they can just tell you to leave and you have no right to defend yourself. This is also coming from a person that is not a full member. I guess that some of the people in QMA feel like they can just follow the rules they want to. QMA has rules and bylaws that are there to protect the members and the sport, but if the rules are not followed, or only followed some of the time you get what we have now, a big fat mess. It is sad because some of these people on the NB really do care and want to do the right thing for the  sport. I wasn't really sure that I even wanted to race this year because of all this stuff that is going on, but I did after the national meeting because I thought the spec tire and the Animal motor would save me some money and bring some of the fun back. But now they are doing a really good job of sucking the fun out of it and driving the cost up for the membership. And I also have to worry about the getting sent home because I rubbed a board member the wrong way. I am sure that Big Brother will figure out who wrote this post and I will get one of those letters I have to sign for from the mailman. Until then I will be joining USAC and looking for the best way to get to Little T. I should also stock up on racers tape to help keep from being asked to leave when I have to attend my local QMA events.

Title: Re: QMA Does it again
Post by: CPG Racing on March 26, 2011, 12:48:51 PM
It saddens be deeply as to what QMA NOB is doing, but that is their problem. We at Little T look forward to you coming up and racing with us. Let me know if you need any info.

Dale Gross
Custom Midget Club President
aka Little T

Title: Re: QMA Does it again
Post by: sfreitas20 on March 26, 2011, 07:53:14 PM
There are over 175 cars having a blast at the Music City race this weekend with USAC in round 2 of the National series on a weekend when most parents have to hurry their kids back to school next week.  Yet between the two National QMA events on Thanksgiving and Christmas breaks, they couldn't even pull 100 cars combined for the two events. 

With decisions like this one, QMA will continue to lose cars and families and USAC will continue to gain them.

Title: Re: QMA Does it again
Post by: sfreitas20 on March 26, 2011, 11:07:03 PM
The real shame in this whole thing is that Briggs offered to make all new engines for QMA already with the milling and decking done to the USAC spec so they could still box stock and have the same specs so the engines in USAC now could be used.

Be sure to let everyone you know in QMA this was offered, but the board refused to take the offer.  I predict next year will be another great year for USAC with many more clubs making the switch.

Title: Re: QMA Does it again
Post by: RBurns17 on March 27, 2011, 02:57:30 PM
You mean someone who profits off the sport is doing things to make it more expensive? That's preposterous. :D.

Title: Re: QMA Does it again
Post by: animalman on March 27, 2011, 06:21:40 PM
well let set the record straight . The NBOD did vote that way but it was not a 100% . The vote was 4 to 3 . I know how the outcome was but you can read about it later on when the minutes was posted.  As far as someone talking about the turnout for Nashville well congrads. The turnout would of been over 200. But the owner of the track and it's "track manager" had a list of people that were banned.  If they want to prevent kids from racing I guess that is there choice. Its about the kids huh. sic

Title: Re: QMA Does it again
Post by: RBurns17 on March 27, 2011, 06:33:22 PM
well let set the record straight . The NBOD did vote that way but it was not a 100% . The vote was 4 to 3 . I know how the outcome was but you can read about it later on when the minutes was posted.  As far as someone talking about the turnout for Nashville well congrads. The turnout would of been over 200. But the owner of the track and it's "track manager" had a list of people that were banned.  If they want to prevent kids from racing I guess that is there choice. Its about the kids huh. sic

The NBOD and even general membership "vote" on a lot of things that turn out surprising unpopular in the end. As for anyone being denied entry, doubt it. That's hearsay, however, there is plenty of proof on this forum, even pictures, of QMA flat out choosing to not allow certain families to race.

Take that tuff off of her.

Title: Re: QMA Does it again
Post by: animalman on March 27, 2011, 08:13:50 PM
oh i agree there is a lot of proof on this forum. Usac had nothing to do with kids not being allowed to race. The local track is at fault. James Spink will confirm this. I just hope in the future that USAC put in there contract that anyone with a USAC membership will be allowed to race. Phonecalls  emails, and text that confirm this. Phone calls can not be revealed by federal law. But text and e-mail are fair game. The track owner and track manager are the ones that banned kids. USAC had nothing to do with it. I will have to say it was some real good racing. The best turnout ever for Nashville

Title: Re: QMA Does it again
Post by: Kendall42 on March 28, 2011, 08:24:49 AM
I really don't care anymore what QMA does.  For the last 2 years I left QMA stickers on my cars along with the USAC stickers...just in case we ran a QMA event.  We were so busy with USAC events last year (32 weekends of racing!) that we had no time for QMA races.  That along with this sort of QMA antic helped me decide I have no use for QMA.  I have taken the stickers off as we will never run another QMA event.  Not gonna worry about what they do anymore, only care what USAC does.  Glad our club (Toledo, OH) got on board in year 1 of USAC .25 so we have had a couple years now to enjoy USAC racing.  We enjoy it enough that even while Austin just turned 16 and could climb in my dirt LM, we elected to spend one more year in .25 because we enjoy it!

Wish we could have made Nashville this weekend! Looked like a great track and fun!  Looking forward to racing with our great USAC family around MI, IN, and OH this summer!


Title: Re: QMA Does it again
Post by: Walker23 on March 28, 2011, 03:12:22 PM
I am not in the least bit supprised. QMA could have done several things in the past that would benifit the sport as a whole but chose not to if for no other reason than to not follow the lead of what USAC has accomplished in such a short amount of time. They could have had the rules written in less than a week if they just downloded the USAC Animal rules.

What this means to many families is that they are now forced to make a choice. I don't think that QMA will like their decisions. We made ours. It is a shame since the closest USAC track is 1.5 hrs away and the closest QMA track is 2.4 miles which we will no longer be racing at.

On the radio broadcast Tisone attributed the decline in QMA membership to the economy. What can be attributed to USAC's 2-yr growth? The same economy? Perhaps it is stupid decisions made by peoplle that have a financial interest in how much a racer spends. How is a member driven organization run? LOL!

We look forward to the good times ahead and will see everyone at the Mac-O-Chee race in a month!

Title: Re: QMA Does it again
Post by: streihawk8 on March 28, 2011, 11:19:07 PM
I am sorry: Who the hell cares what QMA does. This is a better deal. Not perfect but striving for it. What does QMA have to offer?  If you want to compete in a poor johny, soocer mom deal go ahead. Little league baseball and midget football follow the lead of their adult disciplines. Oh and if the weather was not so iffy than there would have been over 200 cars. Thanks Music City for an excellent weekend. I was home in bed earlier than the last time we ran a regional at Mini Indy and had 4 more hours of travel time.

Title: Re: QMA Does it again
Post by: Swartz on March 30, 2011, 12:20:36 PM
Ok. I don't have a dog in this fight and I have been keeping my nose out of it but trying to stay informed for the future. Then, I read this.............

"Rich does not believe that a
vendor should help the NBOD set rules for the organization."


Title: Re: QMA Does it again
Post by: sfreitas20 on March 30, 2011, 02:32:57 PM
Oh well, all the members can do is the keep the pressure up on the national board.  We will only race our Honda car at QMA events and will just leave the Animal cars in the trailer.  Our club will lose registration fees and the kids will lose experience racing because they won't have cars to make the class.

I will keep up my emails and phone calls to the NBOD too.

Title: Re: QMA Does it again
Post by: atfd404 on March 30, 2011, 03:27:32 PM
I too do not have a dog in this fight but I am still involved with some old friends that still race in QMA and USAC both that I am going to help out this season. My question is why would you have a class that was only for one orginization (USAC or QMA) when there are so many places to race? In Ohio, Indiana & Michigan there are twelve tracks why would'nt you want the rules the same. In 2009 we ran World Formula & Hvy 160 in USAC & QMA and the only change was tires.

Title: Re: QMA Does it again
Post by: Phil on March 31, 2011, 08:55:12 AM
(Quote from Walker23) "On the radio broadcast Tisone attributed the decline in QMA memberships to the economy."

 Here are some figures I would be worried about that can contribute. 

QMA 2009 total publicity/promotion expense $24,723.02
QMA 2010 total publicity/promotion expense   $7,606.19   

QMA cant afford now to spend money on publicity/promotion but are able to spend $16,089 on Per Diem for 3 grands combined in 2010. Thats just food and drink at 3 races for NBOD, doesnt include travel and room expense.

I hope more and more members are now seeing the light. 

Title: Re: QMA Does it again
Post by: Mrneg on March 31, 2011, 09:02:42 AM
Ever notice that as soon as some people get elected to the NBOD they all of a sudden start attending all three Grands, either to race or to support their QM related business.

Title: Re: QMA Does it again
Post by: Ezone on April 06, 2011, 09:50:44 AM
While I agree that QMA NBOD has made decisions that I disagree with, I also see issues with USAC.  This will likely be our last year as the USAC programs and changes at local tracks are making the sport too expensive and instead of this being a kids sport, it becoming a childhood profession if you want to be competitive. 

Unfortunately -- I want our kids to enjoy their childhood and that means it cannot be racing only.  One of the concerns I had when we went USAC was that the cost to be competitive would increase.   It has.  Not necessairly from a component level (tires/motors), but certainly if you want to attend and be apart of both local and national events.  It becomes cost prohibitive, and if we just race a few events, we are better off buying a boat, or taking periodic vacations.  Both organizations are taking all the fun out of the experience. 

Please dont take this wrong -- the people we meet are great.  It becomes purely a cost-benefit analysis.  We wish all of you well.

Title: Re: QMA Does it again
Post by: d4hall on April 06, 2011, 11:16:10 AM

I can understand your concern with the cost to travel and compete at the USAC GNT level. In our area (Ohio, Indiana, That state up north) we still have the same number of local opportunities as well as "Regional" opportunities as we did back when we ran with QMA. Without going to all the GNT races you can still have fun and be competitive and enjoy the sport.

Just my opinion.

Title: Re: QMA Does it again
Post by: GB3 on April 06, 2011, 11:52:33 AM
Thats M I C H I G A N Dale :) or if easier MI Its not that hard try it . LOL You wont turn into a smurf overnite. Heck some of us even bleed GREEN. LMAO

Title: Re: QMA Does it again
Post by: RBurns17 on April 06, 2011, 04:40:37 PM
I suppose the Regional format was free to run.

Almost every form of racing has a national touring series. With QMA both the Grands and regional series were expensive to run. And as far as QMA recognition, that's all there was. At least USAC has created a format that allows you to run only club races and still be recognized nationally. In addition to providing a touring series.....

Title: Re: QMA Does it again
Post by: Ezone on April 07, 2011, 08:33:49 AM
I am not for one or the other as an organization nor against.  Both have good and bad points.  The issue is that most kids dont have a chance of ever recieving anything.  Each year there are more events at all levels, national and local.  If you dont run -- less seat time, equals less of an opportunity to practice and do well.  The parity level seems to be widening (at the equipment level).  There is such an opportunity to cheat, and people do.  Kids in other sports, have a much shorter season, they also have a much lower cost - benefit ratio.  Although USAC is growing, canabilzation is part of that growth and once new people realize the commitment required you will have some attrition.

We have made some new freinds and will miss them, but it the right choice for us.

Title: Re: QMA Does it again
Post by: USAC Developmental on April 07, 2011, 09:33:55 AM
To respond to EZONE's comment we certainly understand the time, effort and energy put into running .25 Midgets as a family, not to mention the financial commitment.

With that being said we feel we have set up several stages/series to compete and be part of a National setting without leaving your geographic area.  We understand the "Gen Next" Tour while popular is not for everyone so there are these other options:

1.  National Award Series - Drivers can compete at the local club and not leave his or her home track.  This was also designed to bring excitement and participation to the basis of what we do our clubs.

2.  Regional Series (Midwest Thunder, Ohio Championship) - These are contested between clubs in a geographical area

3.  National Sub Series (Dirt Triple Crown, Mid Atlantic Championship, Southwest Swing) -  These are designed for clubs within a geographical area like the regional series

All these series offer end of the year awards and allow families to compete closer to home and hopefully control cost

Title: Re: QMA Does it again
Post by: Kendall42 on April 07, 2011, 09:41:22 PM
I am a bit confused by your post.  We ran QMA for 3 years and did a couple regionals...but I really did not care for them.  There were only a few we could get to, they seem unorganized and too political.  I had to judge a couple times and got yelled at and flipped off, etc.  Really did not care to do them, but wanted to do something more then just club...what else was there?  It was not practical to run all the we did not garner enough regional points to do anything in points. 

With USAC, you have more choices.  We have Midwest Thunder series here in the Midwest.  We also can run the Ohio State championship series (we did run Tri-City under QMA too), and club stuff.  Then, I hit the NAT stuff if it is close enough to run.  Two years ago we raced 3 Nat events and finished 9th in Hvy Honda points...but only running 3 events, that accomplishment was not recognized.  Last year I was determined to run the minimum required races of 5.  We ran the 5 and he again finished 9th in Hvy Honda USAC Nat points...but nobody outside the top 3 was recognized.  Knowing we cannot afford to run all over the country for fun (no purse money), we scaled back this year.  But even scaled back...we will have a LOT more opportunities to race then we had in QMA.  So we don't run CA, New MX, NC, TN, etc.  We will run Mac-o-chee so we can run Indy, Kalamazoo (because we live in MI), and Eldora...Dirt rules!  Ya, we could run a 5th so we meet the minimum required to be recognized in National points...but running 5 of them will not be enough to garner a top 3 in National what is the point?  I will take those other National weekends and go camping or run a non-USAC dirt event somewhere. 

We raced 3 cars in 3 classes last year...raced 34 weekends...signed in for 47 events!  Not a single one was QMA!  Some were not sanctioned...just fun arena races or dirt shows.  So...don't run the National is not a heck of a lot different then the Regional tour in QMA and if you cannot make them all, it means little anyway.  So....just load up the cars, find an event, USAC or QMA or unsanctioned...and go have fun!  Stay close to home and enjoy the time with the kids.  That is what it is all about in the end anyway.  My kid is now 16 and I have a dirt late model (mine) sitting in the shop he could jump into!  But...he has only been able to enjoy 5 seasons of QM racing and he still loves it...loves the friends, family, and we opted for run another year in QM racing.  I am sure we may find a way to test the LM on some of those National weekends that are too far away for us to travel to! 

Basically we can do just as much if not more racing now not running any QMA events then we did or could when we raced QMA prior to USAC. 


Title: Re: QMA Does it again
Post by: Kendall42 on April 07, 2011, 09:43:04 PM
Well said James!  I had not seen that before I posted.  Sorry.

Title: Re: QMA Does it again
Post by: slowpoke on April 08, 2011, 11:42:30 AM
Lets get serious folks!  USAC rules!  This is our 8th year racing qm's and I am totally pumped up about the opportunities that USAC has provided for our children.  Races at Disney World, Eldora, Indy, Milwaukee.  Many of these races are held in conjunction with sprints, midgets, and now indy cars!  I can attest for one thing only, since USAC has started promoting the .25 midgets, the FUN factor has incresed 10 fold.
    Thanks USAC!

I agree with you OutlawQMracer,  If the parents would try to have as much fun as the kids and quit worrying about points and who spends how much on whatever then they would appreciate it more. If you just go run the races you want to and quit worrying about points you will have a lot more fun.I get a real laugh at how some of the parents actually think this is a fast track to Nascar and their kid is the next big thing to get behind the wheel.Those are the same people spending their kids college fund on racing only to be heart broken when they realize the reality of the situation, There are no Nascar scouts at QM races.
Hope everyone has a good race season and has fun , I know we will.   Dirt Rules!

Title: Re: QMA Does it again
Post by: Walker23 on April 08, 2011, 02:10:46 PM
Points chasing doesn't sound like much fun. What sounds fun for my kids is racing at Eldora, Brickyard, Milwaukee, and being treated very well. Sure there are the select fortunate few who have a ton of money to haul their kid all over the country thinking they will be one of 43 drivers somewhere someday, maybe. I don't thinnk there is a single parent that hasn't had that thought. But reality sets in quickly, and begin to think about what makes the sport fun..

We will do the close GenNext races, some Midwest Thunder, and ofcourse the club races at our home track, Toledo. Plenty of oppertunity for seat time that way. I just didn't see a need to be yanking my kids out of school and driving across country (or hiring someone to drive while we fly) for a fun weekend. Some of us still work too! We will have plenty of fun weekends, this summer.