USAC Racing Forum

General Chat => Point .25 => Topic started by: Teampanther on February 17, 2011, 02:29:58 AM



Title: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: Teampanther on February 17, 2011, 02:29:58 AM
Why is it against the rules to run a brow on a quarter midget? I know they say no windshields but when you have a driver that sits straight up the sun can become an issue. If its made of plastic how would it hurt anything?


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: sfreitas20 on February 17, 2011, 11:21:37 AM
I asked the same question last year, but not because of the sun.  I asked because my son really wants one on his car with his name on it so his car looks more like the bigger cars.  Here is what I was told:

If we allow them, do we just leave it open to whatever you want to put on the car or do we need to limit it to being 2" or 3" or 4" tall or whatever.  How about for chassis that are wider than others?

I kinda get it, but I also think it would be cool to let them have it.  As far as the sun goes, we just throw a row of tape across the top of his shield and taught him to lower his head until the tape blocks the sun.


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: Teampanther on February 17, 2011, 02:48:07 PM
See the brow height would be an easy one. Limit it to 3" height really wouldn't matter. It would be sorta like how dirt tracks and pavement tracks police rear spoilers on their cars. Include it in pre tech and it would only take a quick second to throw a tape on it to measure the brow's height. I serious doubt a plastic brow is going to give advantage on a 1/20 size track. Thanks Scott for your reply.


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: streihawk8 on February 17, 2011, 05:40:56 PM
What is a Brow?


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: clouse55 on February 17, 2011, 05:48:26 PM
 Its a brother from another mother!!!  LMAO


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: Teampanther on February 17, 2011, 08:18:25 PM
Its the piece that runs across the top of where the windshield would be on sprint cars, midgets,street stocks, etc. Most put there last name across it.


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: Karnes29 on February 17, 2011, 09:01:03 PM
Or they could put their feature win stickers across the front like the big cars.


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: clouse55 on February 17, 2011, 10:06:24 PM
 On the quarter midgets there are several issues. The biggest is vision, not straight ahead but looking up as at a flagman. Then comes proper attachment issues.

 Putting one on anything less than a W/F would be a big performance disadvantage anyhow.


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: 26midgetracer on February 17, 2011, 10:10:49 PM
Ahh! common Man, what about downforce? LOL ;)


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: streihawk8 on February 17, 2011, 10:23:07 PM
oh a visor!.... lets see I started racing 1/4 midgets in 1961 thru 1970, my brother raced them from 72 thru 78, I raced midgets from 85 thru 2001 and my son has raced 1/4 midgets for 8 years. the sun has never really been a problem and I don't see where sitting straight up or laying over would make a difference. The biggest problem is some people would just tie wrap them on or velcro or some really lame or unsafe manner. if a car gets tipped it could peel the tie wraps off and the visor could possible injure the driver. Not worth it in my opinion. and its just my opinion!


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: Teampanther on February 17, 2011, 11:04:54 PM
I have thought about the saftey issue thats why I came up with a plastic brow instead of a sheet metal one. The plastic that I have in mind is about an 1/8" thick and is rather flexible. As far as seeing the flagman, most races are started atleast at our track coming out of turn 3 and we also run Raceceivers. I am so glad I joined this forum cause it seems no one else wants to even discuss it or anything at all. Glad to heard everyone's opinions.


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: clouse55 on February 17, 2011, 11:42:00 PM
 Sorry for givin you so much crap panther...LOL. A few of the chassis guys around here played with a visor. There is so much cage size variation between car makes it gets difficult. Some cars with a small cage and a seat that holds the head forward you need to be a mile from the flagman to see him. 1/8'' plastic that is strong enough not to sag in the middle from heat in the summer could get sharpened pretty good on an edge during a roll over. If it came loose and got under the helmet, could be bad, seen a guy get killed one night that way in a big car.
 Why wont anybody else talk about it???? Crap we will. Welcome aboard!!!   


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: Teampanther on February 18, 2011, 01:46:23 AM
I have found that no one really wants to question some of the rules of the sanctioning bodies. I sent an email to the National Tech guy of the other series and still have not heard anything back. That was over a week ago. It seems like this Forum is really good for actually discussing these types of things.I can see your point about what if the visor comes loose but I have had an issue those darn dzus coming out of another car and several have hit my daughter in the visor of her helmet. I think the ones on the hood should be wired to the car to prevent that from happening.


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: sfreitas20 on February 18, 2011, 03:11:39 AM
It isn't like that over here panther!  If you have any questions ask here and normally you get an answer from someone within a day and if you want the official word just call the USAC office and ask for James. If he isn't available right then he will almost always call back within a couple days.


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: KA34 on February 25, 2011, 08:11:25 PM
We have run a visor for two years and at little 100 among other big races with no problem! Put em on the kids like them, make them feel like the big cars! Just my opinion


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: Teampanther on February 26, 2011, 12:08:13 AM
I would love to see pics of them at the Little 100 race.


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: KA34 on February 26, 2011, 10:59:13 AM
Panther you can go back and the race we have one car in jr rookie and one in light 160! We didnt make the A in the 160 and this link is the sunday A features!
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/8655876



Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: Teampanther on February 26, 2011, 04:53:57 PM
Well no visor will be allowed no matter the reason. Place tape on the helmet to block any glare from the sun. I guess I will have to conform to the rules. I guess if my child leaned out of the car it wouldn't be an issue, which will not happen do to the safety issue of having my child's helmet bang off the pavement in an accident. I was very glad to say I received quick feedback on my question.


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: Teampanther on March 02, 2011, 02:18:39 PM
Still working on this issue. I am wondering what the penalty would be if I showed up at the track with a visor in place and refused to remove it?


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: streihawk8 on March 02, 2011, 02:44:44 PM
I guess I dont see the difference as to why a visor is needed whether you lean out or sit straight up. The sun is like 93 million miles away. The change in angle of the sun would be quite minimal.


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: Karnes29 on March 02, 2011, 02:45:44 PM
I totally agree with you as far as a kids head hanging out the side of the car, If your kid goes on to race the ford focus midgets or late model or modified you won't see any of them with their heads hanging out of the side of the car.

I understand they have to lean a little but some have half of their body hanging out of the side, My thought on that would be if you need that much left side weight then mount more lead over there.

 


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: streihawk8 on March 02, 2011, 09:12:19 PM
the only ones that ever disagree with a little leaning in quarter midgets are the ones who have never driven one. If you have ever driven a quarter midget then you will understand why (and its not just about handling). Use critical thinking skills and try to answer why.   
ps. most midgets and focus midgets tip their seats so that they lean to the left.


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: streihawk8 on March 02, 2011, 11:31:20 PM
One thing to think about is G force. Most have probably seen a centrifuge that astronounts train in. with low g force they are sitting fairly straight up and down. As speed increases, the g force increases and the astronauts will start to lean. Their sense of balance and ability to function improve when they are tilted. At lower speeds and g force it is less neccesary to lean. Also Karnes29. Quarter midgets have quite a bit more g forces than do Focus and midgets. I can attest to that and so can physics.


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: Teampanther on March 02, 2011, 11:49:34 PM
If a parent wants to allow their child to lean out then thats great for them and have nothing against them for doing that. I am just unwilling to put my child's head in that kind of danger in case of an accident. My issue and my reason for starting this thread was to find out why a visor is considered such a safety issue if the reason for running one is to help with a drivers vison.


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: sfreitas20 on March 02, 2011, 11:54:06 PM
The leaning thing has been beat to death on these forums and no matter what arguments are made some people disagree with it.  I will have to say this is the first time I heard anyone argue that leaning helps improve their balance and ability to function though.  That is a pretty funny argument!


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: RBurns17 on March 03, 2011, 03:11:05 AM
Leaning is a can of worms I don't think anyone who has frequented this forum since it's beginning wants to open up.

It doesn't matter what's said or what happens, there are always people who believe a kid's head outside the cockpit is incredibly dangerous and other who believe no one will ever get hurt from it.

As for brows. I know plenty of people at Kokomo have been running them for the last two seasons. I thought they were legal if under a certain measurement. Guess I was incorrect?


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: Offset on March 03, 2011, 09:10:47 AM
Great point streihawk8.  Newton's second law again.


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: Karnes29 on March 03, 2011, 09:11:04 AM
Well my thought on the brow/visor is they will block some of the sun just like the sun visor in your car,Now if you stick your head out the the window the angle of the sun will get in your eyes.maybe the g forces will be to much for it. :)

My thought on leaning out of the qms is safety,My kids watched me get cut out of my race car and life flighted to the hospital due to a head injury when i hit the wall drivers side first.

I don't want to get in the way of astronauts,centrifuge & physics,If you need to have your driver stand on the nerf bars because of the g forces then so be it.


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: clouse55 on March 03, 2011, 11:43:47 AM
 Kinda funny, people spend all kinds of money on the newest car design, ceramic bearings, special shocks, lightened gears, lightened axles, etc. etc. etc. but want to mount a billboard on top of their car.

 Put your hand out your car window at 30 mph and see what happens. 


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: Teampanther on March 03, 2011, 01:53:57 PM
Clouse, I really don't see your point. I am wanting the visor to block the sun, thats it. No name No business just to help my daughter be able to see better. If it slows the car down than I need to tweak the car some to get the speed back. My daughter's ability to see is more important than the few hundredths or thousandths of a second it might slow us down.


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: sfreitas20 on March 03, 2011, 02:22:54 PM
Kinda funny, people spend all kinds of money on the newest car design, ceramic bearings, special shocks, lightened gears, lightened axles, etc. etc. etc. but want to mount a billboard on top of their car.

 Put your hand out your car window at 30 mph and see what happens.  

That is exactly why they are not allowed.  While Panther here just wants a visor, others will start tweaking it and bending it until it ends up looking like a little wing on the front of the car because someone somewhere will think it will give them an advantage.

Panther, just go with the tape on the shield.  It works.  We have been to one track that doesn't allow it, so I actually had 3/4" wide strips of black vinyl made and I use those there because it just looks like the stuff the factory put on the shield and the people running the track don't know any different. :)


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: RBurns17 on March 04, 2011, 12:24:26 AM
Kinda funny, people spend all kinds of money on the newest car design, ceramic bearings, special shocks, lightened gears, lightened axles, etc. etc. etc. but want to mount a billboard on top of their car.

 Put your hand out your car window at 30 mph and see what happens. 

It's also funny how people spend all of this money on top of the line safety equipment and then mount their kid to where limbs or even heads stick out of the car. I wouldn't advise it either.

I guess the moral to what I'm saying is. People do odd things. But, I don't see the problem with people running visors. It's not hurt anyone's performance but their own and there are things legal in our sport much more dangerous.

Given the right tech specs and limitation I just don't see where it would be that big of a deal. But, I guess I'm not USAC. Their organization, their decision I guess.


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: Teampanther on March 06, 2011, 05:12:12 PM
I agree with you Burns17. I don't think my little visor is going to hurt anyone except our lap times. I have never understood why a child should have their head outside of a pefectly good racecar. They say for the weight to the left. I would rather keep my daughter's head inside where it is mostly save then chance it for a spot on the race track.


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: Teampanther on November 18, 2011, 12:48:00 AM
Love seeing that USAC has the new rule that allows a visor on quarter midgets. Now if the other sanctioning body would allow them it would be great.


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: bill4633 on November 18, 2011, 05:22:18 PM
G. No restraining device may be used to keep the drivers head or body outside of
the roll cage
 this is a rule direct from the usac rule book yet i see this on almost every car


Title: Re: Just a quick question, Why no brow?
Post by: Teampanther on November 18, 2011, 10:19:49 PM
I don't understand how both sanctioning bodies can say they are so focused on safety and they allow children to have their heads outside of the car. At my home track this season, I seen with my own eyes a Novice driver roll his car and it landed on the left side in return since he is belted to the left and has a helmet rest on the other, his helmet smacked the ground. What is sad is that NO ONE had an issue with that,now does that make sence. I will not allow my kids to hang out like that at any cost. There is not another form of auto racing that allows that except moto and maybe karts since they do mount their seats tilted low and laid back.