USAC Racing Forum

General Chat => Point .25 => Topic started by: wolverineracer on December 06, 2010, 12:58:19 PM



Title: Why does this continue?
Post by: wolverineracer on December 06, 2010, 12:58:19 PM
Over this last weekend I have heard some of the great new news out of the USAC camp. With USAC appearing to be the leader in the advancement of quarter midget racing I don't understand why up north we are being told by QMA members things that they apparantly have no idea about. Hopefully those on here can set the record straight.

We've been told that Macochee,Xenia and Toledo are going back to QMA. According to the schedule I seen, Macochee is hosting a national event this year, Xenia is hosting USAC midget races at their big track and I dont see Toledo changing. So why are we told this?

We've been told that USAC has no money and they are not a non-profit organization. I have found that USAC IS a non profit org. just ran differently than QMA. And from the looks of things that USAC has been doing it cant be done with no money. Why is this all an issue?

We've also been told that when a club joins USAC you lose all voice. I see that the spec tire, thailand engine problem, racievers etc, all things that most all QMA members want were actually brought to USAC by members, Why are we all told different?

I'm sure I have answered some of my own questions, but why does this continue?

Mrs.Wolverine

   
   


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: wesracing on December 06, 2010, 01:57:07 PM
I am sure all of the talk about those tracks going back to USAC is pretty much all a rumor. The presidents of these clubs did attend the USAC competition meeting and nothing was said about them even being in fear of the members going back to QMA. Although I am not a member of any of those 3 tracks and can't speak for them! I have seen first hand at the USAC meetings the past 2 years that almost every rule change was brought up and decided by the presidents of the clubs that are USAC sanctioned and USAC went along with what the majority of the clubs wanted. As far as USAC's financial situation, they are sanctioning bodies for more than just .25 midgets. I am sure they are plenty fine in the money area. I wouldn't think that their financial situation would be much concern to the average .25 midget team. I don't think they are going anywhere. I guess the question is who is bringing this up to you? I really don't feel there is an issue. I would stop listening to QMA members. Just my opinion!


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: RBurns17 on December 06, 2010, 04:04:15 PM
QMA can make up all the rumors they want about USAC's financials, but being a Non-Profit all of their financials are public for anyone to see. I've looked at their info from last year and I can assure you're they're far from broke. Truth be told, since it is a non-profit I feel comfortable in posting this, they have several million dollars in cash and investments. So I think they're doing just fine. Not only that, but the Benevolent Association is well prepared to help the needs of injured participants.

The same cannot be said about the other organization, who between 2008 and 2009, has lost a significant amount of money with less assets and more liabilities reported at the end of 2009.

The truth is USAC is a much bigger organization with a larger amount of resources and assets. If they wanted to bury QMA they could do it. They have the money to outspend QMA 30x over without even worrying about it. But they don't, they focus their time and resources on making the racing better for all of their participants and that is why clubs are jumping sides without looking back without the need for rumors about QMA and it's members. So I wouldn't worry about anything that comes from that side.


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: Walker23 on December 06, 2010, 06:07:48 PM
In the north there will be a lot less people spreading them come next season.

Kris


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: Swartz on December 07, 2010, 11:28:30 PM
This might answer some of the questions:

http://www.quartermidgets.org/ConCallMinutes/2010-11-01-ConCall.pdf


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: RBurns17 on December 08, 2010, 03:15:27 AM
Interesting read. I looked at 2009 year end stuff and thought it was bad, what's mentioned in this is far worse. At that rate they cannot sustain much longer without some sort of solution, especially with bleak membership outlooks and surely outstanding liabilities that chunk away at their total.

I really hope all of the QMA clubs are paying close attention to stuff like this because a couple of bad moves on their part, like driving away members by mandating a replacement head, could be bad for them.


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: RBurns17 on December 08, 2010, 03:24:28 AM
I know this might be off subject, but I find comfort in knowing USAC is making savvy business moves such as partnering with IUPUI to provide IUPUI students with the chance to help USAC in many facets of it's operations, which at the same time provides USAC with extra support without adding to costs.

Stuff like this is helping solidify the future of this sport.


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: clouse55 on December 08, 2010, 10:02:41 AM
 Here is something that might help

2254.   Every director, officer or agent of any corporation, domestic or foreign, is guilty of a felony (a) who knowingly concurs in making, publishing or posting either generally or privately to the shareholders or other persons (members)
     1. any written report, exhibit, statement of its affairs or pecuniary condition or notice containing any material statement that is false

This is just the first part of section 2254 of the California Corporate Non-Profit Code

 


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: clouse55 on December 08, 2010, 10:11:15 AM
 Your right Burns, the IUPUI deal along with the "Road to Indy" program plus some of the other items Kevin Miller discussed at the banquet more than puts USAC as a staple in quarter midget racing. 


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: pokesalad on December 08, 2010, 11:07:33 AM
People, rumors are like mother in laws , almost everyone has one and gets irratated by them. I have heard rumors from both sides and most of the time they are just what they are . Rumors. I could sit here and find something wrong about QMA. Also i could sit here and find something fishy about USAC if you dig hard enough. Handlers should worry about having fun with there kids .  >:(


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: qmracer12 on December 08, 2010, 01:54:58 PM
Poke is right gotta have fun!  And  I can say that Miami Valley is still and will be a USAC club in 2011.  I would move on to something else after & years before I would go back to the other. Yea you have people at USAC that get paid but you know who they are, because its their job.  Not like the other side someone is getting paid  you just don't know who??


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: sprintcar39 on December 08, 2010, 02:08:54 PM
Northwest Ohio Quarter Midget Racing Association - Toledo Ohio without any doubt will be a USAC .25 club for a long time. The club runs so much easier with the USAC .25 organization and support.
We have been flooded with questions from families about joining the NWOQMRA club for 2011. Some wont give their names for fear that the word will get out and they are fearful of the verbal abuse they will get from their club officials. These additional members are going to be great for the club in 2011 and everyone is welcome at NWOQMRA.


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: Toeknee on December 08, 2010, 02:10:01 PM
My biggest challenge with both QMA & USAC is why couldn't they have worked together in the past when USAC was QMA's sanctioning body? It is my understanding when I got into this sport in 2002 that USAC was the sanctioning body for QMA. QMA supposedly paid USAC to be that sanctioning body but we never had any of the advantages that are currently being offered by USAC such as promotion, advertising, connections to bigger racing, etc.

I heard that it was QMA over managing(not allowing USAC to do things) and also heard that USAC was cashing the checks and not trying to do anything for QMA. HE said, she said just like always. This then caused the split and brings us to today with 2 weaker organizations instead of big strong youth racing organization. It should be "all about the kids".

I wish the best to both organizations and hope youth quartermidget racing does not turn out like Indy Racing and Kart. They spent several wasted years of low car counts fighting each other and finally now that they are back together the sport actually matters again.

I hope many USAC members will attend the Oaklane Eastern Grands and I look forward to racing USAC in the future cause its all about the kids!


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: SAKMotorsports on December 08, 2010, 03:12:07 PM
QM racing quit being about the kids back in the 80's when it was about who had the deepest pockets and still continues today!


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: Karnes29 on December 08, 2010, 03:20:42 PM
With this being our first year racing we never got a chance to join qma but we have had a few without mentioning any names ask us to join them, After reading all of this i think we will just stick with usac and hope we can make a few more national events.


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: Toeknee on December 08, 2010, 03:21:22 PM
I was not around in the 80's, so can you please explain what you are saying. I thought all racing is ultimately about the deepest pockets, just read the Road & Driver article about USAC.

I've spent ALOT of money racing since 2002 in QM's & Micro's w/ 2 drivers and no one made me spend a dime, I decided to spend every dollar. We are very competative and put alot of time, money and effort into our racing program by choice.

I believe that QMA & USAC are both ultimately about "Kids Racin".


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: ssssmoke on December 08, 2010, 03:31:02 PM
why does this continue?


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: RBurns17 on December 08, 2010, 08:04:07 PM
My biggest challenge with both QMA & USAC is why couldn't they have worked together in the past when USAC was QMA's sanctioning body? It is my understanding when I got into this sport in 2002 that USAC was the sanctioning body for QMA. QMA supposedly paid USAC to be that sanctioning body but we never had any of the advantages that are currently being offered by USAC such as promotion, advertising, connections to bigger racing, etc.

I heard that it was QMA over managing(not allowing USAC to do things) and also heard that USAC was cashing the checks and not trying to do anything for QMA. HE said, she said just like always. This then caused the split and brings us to today with 2 weaker organizations instead of big strong youth racing organization. It should be "all about the kids".

I wish the best to both organizations and hope youth quartermidget racing does not turn out like Indy Racing and Kart. They spent several wasted years of low car counts fighting each other and finally now that they are back together the sport actually matters again.

I hope many USAC members will attend the Oaklane Eastern Grands and I look forward to racing USAC in the future cause its all about the kids!

My understanding is that USAC's sole affiliation with QMA was a management role, such as they have now with another company. It was never a sanctioning agreement. I could be wrong about this, but when USAC first came into the sport I thought it was made clear that when they asked to fill more of a role within QMA, QMA dumped them.

The problem I have and you can see it reading the meeting minutes that were posted is that QMA turns the blame towards others. They say membership counts are down because a change in filling dates. They refuse to admit that they're going backwards.

USAC on the other hand is proactive in making changes for the good of the sport. USAC is making active moves to help grow the sport and keep it healthy whereas QMA's board only does things with the intention of staying in power. I've noticed that more things that the members desired (spec tire, judging changes, more affordable motor platforms, etc etc) have been instituted since USAC has been around when if you listen to the rumors, the members have no say in what happens with USAC.

This is my personal opinion on the matter, but the facts don't lie. There is no need for USAC to make up rumors about QMA, the truths are just as effective.


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: Phil on December 09, 2010, 10:15:47 AM
 I believe the issue of the rumors becomes greater when they are used in an official document or is spoken by a NBOD member. Members that are new or just dont know take these rumors to be stated facts.
 http://www.quartermidgets.org/ConCallMinutes/2010-11-03-ConCall.pdf
Rich explained that QMA is a not for profit orgination, our officers are not paid we are all volunteers.

http://quartermidgets.org/Elections/2010/Resumes/Thomas_Zickefoose.pdf
"I have heard many concerns voiced and have been asked for my opinion on the advent of USAC and the .25 section of their operations. I dont agree with the concept of any sanctioning body running a "for profit" agenda"

 There are more of these type statements easily found.   


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: Walker23 on December 09, 2010, 12:17:04 PM
As I read through the minutes, short sheets and blah blah blah. They change the date or waived the late fee last year because numbers were down. Now this year they are suggesting to the put it back, because numbers were down...

Makes perfect sense.


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: Swartz on December 09, 2010, 03:10:08 PM
I believe the issue of the rumors becomes greater when they are used in an official document or is spoken by a NBOD member. Members that are new or just dont know take these rumors to be stated facts.
 http://www.quartermidgets.org/ConCallMinutes/2010-11-03-ConCall.pdf
Rich explained that QMA is a not for profit orgination, our officers are not paid we are all volunteers.

http://quartermidgets.org/Elections/2010/Resumes/Thomas_Zickefoose.pdf
"I have heard many concerns voiced and have been asked for my opinion on the advent of USAC and the .25 section of their operations. I dont agree with the concept of any sanctioning body running a "for profit" agenda"

 There are more of these type statements easily found.   

A lot of the people in QMA are great, but, the "not for profit" deal has always irked me. You will notice that a lot of the officers nationaly and regionaly and especialy on the advisory comittee are engine and chassis builders who's main source of income is quarter midget racing.


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: RBurns17 on December 09, 2010, 04:58:18 PM
(http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt339/RBurns17/Screenshot2010-12-09at34911PM.png?t=1291927925)

They can keep saying it, but it doesn't make it true. I'd trust the documentation more than the other side.


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: wolverineracer on December 14, 2010, 12:04:32 AM
 I would like to thank all for replying to my post. I would also like to thank all involved with the Fastalk radio show with their special guests Rich Tisone and James Spinks that aired tonight. This answered ALL my questions. 


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: RBurns17 on December 14, 2010, 03:03:56 AM
Essentially what Mr.Tisone is saying is that USAC is not a safe environment for your children and Region 4's membership problems are the fault of the remaining members. Barry had good questions that were completely ignored and deflected. I was not impressed with Mr.Tisone's presentation of his organization and while I don't agree with a lot of things about QMA, I don't think he did the organization justice.

While I agree with Mr.Freeman that local clubs are responsible for going out and getting memberships, in the end it is imperative for the National Level to help build interest in the sport to make it possible for local clubs to go out and get the members. It's much more of a hard sell to gain members who have never heard of the sport.

I think where USAC has the upper hand here is they're out promoting the series so the sport isn't so foreign to potential members. I just don't see QMA helping with this at a national level. I also don't see them making connections and partnerships to build the sport, and listening to the show, it seems as if they're unwilling to connect with anyone else to help foster the growth of the sport. Whereas USAC is not only connecting with other branches of their organization, they're also making connections with other forms of racing that they do not own to reap the benefits of the clout of bigger organizations.

We have a lot to offer the bigger organizations as far as entertainment value and it should be harnessed into partnerships to help secure the future of our sport. This goes for USAC and QMA. The sooner QMA embraces this, the sooner they will be able to grow, as their financials prove is currently not happening.

But I guess the publicity packet makes up for all of that......


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: RBurns17 on December 14, 2010, 03:09:15 AM
And I would like to add, as someone seasoned in video editing, I will cut a QMA or USAC television commercial free of charge if provided with the footage. Or any other QM organization who would like such a service.

Marketing like this can be surprisingly inexpensive if planned out and targeted precisely enough.


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: ggray on December 14, 2010, 04:15:59 AM
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/terry-wall/2010/12/14/fastalk-racing-show


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: IndyQMDad on December 14, 2010, 10:43:00 AM
@rburns, well said!

The point I was hoping to make is that the club membership can't depend on the national organization to build membership. They have to take it upon themselves to get out there and promote, promote, promote. Anything that National does is just a bonus, in my opinion.

Of course, USAC has done a great job spreading the word about quarter midget racing. They have taken a very proactive approach to promotion, and, as you stated, have formed relationships/used existing relationships to strengthen the brand recognition for the Mopar .25 series and quarter midgets in general. This promotion will certainly benefit the clubs; however, the clubs still need to get out there and do additional promotion.

That's a wonderful offer you've made to assist with video editing. I hope someone will take you up on that offer.

Overall, what do you guys think of the show? Not just last nights, but the show in general? When I first signed on as a sponsor, I wasn't particularly happy with how the show was going. I had a couple of conversations with Terry about how I thought he could improve, and he was very open to my suggestions. I think it's a great idea. and a lot of fun, which is why I've been trying to lend Terry a hand as much as possible. There is still a lot of room for improvement. I am sure Terry would appreciate any constructive feedback. You are welcome to message me, and I will pass it along. A conversation about promotion sounds like a good topic for an upcoming show. 


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: Swartz on December 14, 2010, 01:26:42 PM
The sad thing in all of this is that a lot of us wanted to do both. The reasons were selfish, I admit, but we were running WF and AA so we only ran regional and national events the last few years. Figured more chances to race. Our club checked with the insurance people. They said no problem. USAC was ok with it. It would cost more but doable. QMA said no way. Had to be one or the other. Well..........ok then..........


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: IndyQMDad on December 14, 2010, 04:00:46 PM
@swartz, I couldn't agree more that dual membership would have been great. It is too bad that it wasn't allowed to happen.

@outlawQMracer, there is a show each Monday night. I don't believe Terry is going to have USAC and QMA on again next week. I think he feels it's too much to ask for them to be on two weeks in a row. I think he'll be inviting another club and it's members to be guests.


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: sfreitas20 on December 14, 2010, 07:46:49 PM
Sounds like it, plus you can go in now and listen to the past shows on the site.


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: clouse55 on December 15, 2010, 11:23:24 AM
 I agree that clubs can set their own destiny by how they promote it, but, you cant build a house out of a pile of wood with no tools. USAC has brought the tools and then some.

 Thanks David for putting your time into Terrys radio program and for sponsoring it. Much needed!


Title: Re: Why does this continue?
Post by: RBurns17 on December 16, 2010, 04:35:15 AM
I agree that clubs can set their own destiny by how they promote it, but, you cant build a house out of a pile of wood with no tools. USAC has brought the tools and then some.

 Thanks David for putting your time into Terrys radio program and for sponsoring it. Much needed!

To be fair QMA mailed out packets.......  :D

But you're right, USAC is unloading the arsenal when it comes to the .25 program. I just find it sad that some see this as a bad thing.