USAC Racing Forum

I see the new rules are in the garage area. Do we know what plate we are going to use for sure? I would like to find out so we can try and get one before indoors?

What is the cost of one of these animals?  I have not taken the time to read the rules and was just curious if its box stock or what? 

Another crazy question is will this be ran on honda day or Deco day?  So I could run jr. Honda Sat and change engines and run Jr animal the next day at two day events and still just bring the one car!

From the Tech Manual: "All parts will be stock unaltered Briggs & Stratton Animal parts specifically made for this engine by Briggs and Stratton." 

Sounds pretty stock to me.

There are a few basic mod's but doesn't appear to be anything severe.

Black plate will be ran at Indoors for the Jr's. Also planning to run a Hvy Animal class as well dunno which plate though.

I think the general concept they are looking for is to run it on Deco day to allow for engine changes from Honda.

We've tested them numerous times and like it. Sitting on the pitcart (starting, maint, etc) it's kind of like a Honda (even has a choke for easier cold starting), change the valve spring once a year (like the WF). On the track it runs kind of like a Stocker- not exactly but very similar.

Should be lots of fun and is another venue for the younger kids to get some seat time.

Sorry I forgot to answer the cost question: the feedback I've gotten so far is a purchase price of like $950 for the engine then approx $100 for the exhaust, no throttle linkage needed (kind of similar to a stocker).

Installs just like a Honda, same wiring, etc. Just heavier as I believe it is the same block as the WF. 200cc?????

Looks like some minor milling/decking can be done to the head and block, but other than that sounds pretty stock.

It doesn't look like many of the Quarter Midget builders have them on their websites at this point, but from the karting sites they are about $600 for stock and in the $1500 - $1800 for race ready (wka race ready).  Not sure how different the USAC rules are from WKA, so it is possible the price for a WKA engine may be higher than what it would be for a QM.

are the speeds significantly higher than a jr honda?

WKA motors will have alot more done to them then what we are allowed to run. Thats why they cost more. Magic Man,the Lap times are equal to Jr. Stock. From what I have seen them run I think it will make for a good class for those who can't afford a deco and want to run a second day at the regionals.

From what I see online, you are looking at $600 for the stock engine, plus about $250 for the gearbox and crank that are required, plus at least another $100+ for the exhaust.  You are pretty much at a $1000 just for the parts, then you have labor on top of that, including the millwork/decking to the head and block.  It seems doubtful we will see a Quarter Midget race ready Animal for $1000.  I would bet it will be closer to $1500 than it will be to $1000.

I just got the new crank and gearbox put on our WF engine. It was $275 for all parts and instalation. If you have to pay more you are being robbed.

Here is the ad I found:

Part# '124332-8003'
Briggs Animal Engine
OHV Kart Racing Engine.
Includes NEW PVL Ignition.
List $625.00
Sell $509.95

Looks like you would have about what a good 120 engine from a builder costs in one.

Does that one include the crank and gearbox?  The builder I spoke to today said the stock price $500 - $600 doesn't so it would be an additional $250ish for those two parts.

I am not being negative, just trying to get all the data so I can make an informed decision if we should try to run our team in Jr Animal next year at our USAC track.

No, it does not so with the engine, crank and box you are looking at $800. Seems silly to me. I thought the WF and Animal would be a great place to have the clutches and keep the handlers off the track. Watched micros with the WF run. When they got a red flag the kids could stop, restart and take off without anyone laying a hand on the car. Getting tired of seeing handlers punted.

I thought they were running jr/sr first? Next thing is I think club has to vote on it for indoors.What class are they going to do away with?

baker race engines has the animal for $950, i think you can look them up on there web site.

Were can we get a pipe fpr this? can we use our Honda pipe with an RLV muffler?

i thought it was going to be jr and sr animal. is this true about heavy?  i havnt seen any hvys run. we run sr. do i need to cancel order for motor?

I heard that too. I thought the approved USAC class was Jr./SR. My thoughts are run Sr. the kids that run heavy can a least run Sr. if they choose too. It would at least give everybody a chance to run it. Running only a heavey class sure does limit a lot of kids of having a chance to race

I will get answers to all these questions and have them posted this afternoon when I am back in my office.
Eric

Only jr's will be run at indoors for now. Just a question how many people out there have an engine?

i was told from our club president that the usac competition commitee decided to run jr./sr. animal.

I am working on getting one

still looks cheaper than a's-b's and stockers

yea, but doesn't feel like b's,stockers and nothing feels like an A either

No one ever said anything about it running like an A or B. And yes it does run pretty similar to a stocker. My driver has ran it approx 6 times and has ran stocker as well. He says there are some things a bit different but overall it's pretty similar. At this point, speeds are meant to be approx the same as a stocker too.

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/2363/little_engines_big_money.aspx

My engine builder got 48 horses out of an animal.

Not sure were this guy is getting his prices, $25,000 for a gokart motor Not sure what he is smoking, I don't know of any karter spending that much money $2000 is the most I have heard for a WKA stock motor, Now the Open classes spend up to 3 to 4 thousand , but there are not that many of them. Sounds like the boy is trying to blow smoke up you Rear ends. 

i sure hope so

My engine builder does not charge that much for an engine where did that come from

no tony he didn't say it feels like a b or an a I was simply stating its racing how much torgue does your driver want to feel and how fast do you want to go.Its racing these motors won't stay 995 dollars for long.Hurry up boys only have a couple of weeks before the indoor race go get your motor.

I seriously doubt you are going to get one now for $995.  The box stock engine is $500 - $600, so lets say $550, the gearbox and crank are $250, the exhaust $100, the RLV Muffler $40.  You are at $940 and you haven't paid for any labor or millwork (of course you could go without the millwork if you are ok being slower than anyone that had it done).  I am not knocking the class or engine because we are going to try to get it going at our track.  It is much cheaper than Jr Stock and should get our younger kids some much needed seat time.  It just isn't a $600 engine like some people want to keep saying it is.  They will be priced in line with the lower end pricing for the WKA Animals $1200 - $1500.

That article wasn't that crazy when you consider it was written 8 years ago.  $25k for an engine is an exageration no doubt, but the theme of the whole article was pretty spot on in my opinion.

the original idea was sealed from the factory cant touch it. now its getting more and more. milling the head etc. therefore the cost go up and up. my opinion is the jr and sr animal is a waste of time, might as well run your honda you already have. if you have something to fill the gap between 160 and AA thats a good thing for the price. i think stock and mod is not worth the laps you have to push them around the track for the money they cost. also the new 160 motors is something someone can but out of the box stock and compete with the older ones from engine builders for what 390.00 or so. and its illegal.

ssssmoke..  Let me clarify a couple of things.
There was never any talk of any animal class being a motor sealed from the factory as we must add the splined crank and gearbox for use in QM racing and breaking the factory seal is a must to accomplish this task.

They reason the milling of the head and the decking of the block was added was to help control costs. If we allow the engine builders to machine these surfaces it eliminates the need to find the "right" parts to make that perfect engine. Which is what drives up the costs on the Honda engines now. That is why you see Honda 160's costing $1,300.00.

You also state that the new Honda 160 out of the box for $390.00 will compete with the old engines. But what about those people that are spending $1,300.00 for a built new 160 from an engine builder? Will the old engine be able to compete with there new Honda 160? Who knows? Does it make your old 160 obsolete? Its is only illegal until all the facts can be sorted out on these new engines. There are NO tech specs in existance in any QM racing organization for these new engines. So USAC felt that until they had all the facts and a tech manual to control cheating and the tech of these engines is was in their best interest to NOT all them in competition for the good of all.

Eric Rankine

I'm amazed at how many people are against this. Not talking about anyone on here. But just heard some grumblings tonight about it. I don't understand how making it more cost effective to go fast is a bad thing. There are a lot of people who want their kid to be in something faster but simply don't have the money. The thing I heard most was the QMs already have too many classes, but if you're going to get rid of a class would you keep out the one that's cheaper and will attract membership or the one that a lot of people can't afford and thus has a lagging car count. Locally, I've never seen a stocker run. I can guarantee you there will be probably 8 or 9 cars at a local level running the animal class next year. Keep your stocker class and let us have the animal class. If you don't like it, don't run it.

I was wondring if anyone has ran one of these animal engines heads up against a deco for an extended period such as a feature race.I'm sure the Animal would be a much more reliable , consistant , and much less expensive in the long run. We do not and will never own a deco motor because they really look like a pain in the rear end so this is something we are definetly interested in because we would like to run on day two of the Gen. Next races for the seat time and competition.

thanks eric. that clarifies alot. alot of people are starving for info on this program with indoors a couple weeks out. with only the spec sheet released, it looks to alot of racers, like alot of work to be done, and alot of money. also people are afraid of changes being made to the specs frequently since we dont know alot about this motor. can you give them some insight on this also, availability? where can one be bought before indoors? also people want to know what classes are going to be eliminated. the gossip is stock, mod, hvy honda, maybe B. do you or anyone know which one(s)? racers are wanting to make moves over the winter but dont know which direction to go. i will be happy to pass along any info, that is factual.  people have been spending over a 1000.00 on engines since i have been in .25 nothing will change.

 

To answer some more of ssssmokes questions:

Specs: the specs will not see any major changes in the way USAC will tech the engine. It is set up like the WF tech.

Availability: Both Dirks and A-Main motors have been consulted and asked for information about this platform from the start. They both requested a tech manual as soon as it was approved by USAC and they had it within hours of that approval. In addition Andy Nock has requested a tech manual and gave his input also. Any engine builder can build these engines per the specs. Baker engines and Dirks have engines on the shelf ready for delivery. Just give these guys a call. If someone needs to use a motor for indoors I have some that I can loan out until you get one.

Classes:  There are no plans to eliminate any classes. There is talk that the "three cars constitute a race” rule will be enforced at next year’s races so that we are not running one or two car features. The USAC .25 Competition Committee is working with engine builders to try to find ways to increase the car counts in the stock and mod classes for 2010.