USAC Racing Forum

General Chat => Point .25 => Topic started by: sprintcar39 on October 01, 2009, 09:02:29 AM

Title: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: sprintcar39 on October 01, 2009, 09:02:29 AM

There seems to be many mis-conceptions and fears from those quarter midget racers that are use to running the Vega tire and now have the chance to race/qualify with the Hoosier quarter midget tires. This can be another great topic on the USAC forum to get input from racers that have run both the Vega tire and are now also running the new Hoosier tires. Specifically we are talking about the A35 and the A40 right side tires.

There have been many questions from racers that are interested in coming and racing at Gateway as well as other USAC .25 events. Let’s use this forum to discuss how you use your Hoosier tires, how they perform after a number of races, brand new out of the wrapper and your lap times after each heat cycle or race.

I know that we have set 4 new track records at two different race tracks on the Hoosier tires this year.

Please post your results and experience for others to hear

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: Barr on October 01, 2009, 09:18:21 AM
We have found that they preform better after a few races on them. We have only had to buy two sets of right sides this year. They seem to take about five to six laps to come in. After that the laps times pick up. We have had good luck with this tire. the only problem we have found is the lack of consistency on roll out.

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: badnews69 on October 01, 2009, 09:41:47 AM
the only problem we have found is the lack of consistency on roll out.

we've ran into the same problem for rr,anywhere from 1/4 to 3/4 of an inch

but the hoosier's are more durable.

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: Doug Adams on October 01, 2009, 09:57:43 AM
The Hoosier seems to work better and last longer if you do a short scrub-in session and let them cool for 24 hours according to the manufacturer's instructions.

They seem to take a race heat cycle better when you do this.  It also allows the tire cords to get broken in a bit.  I like to size my tires for stagger after a scrub and cool down.  Generally see tire stretch of 1/8th to 1/4 after scrubbing, somtimes more.

Tire roll-out has been extremely inconsistent, but Hoosier states that that are working on this.  I have had tires mount up between 34 and 35.25 while using the same size mounting ring and air pressure and with tires from the same lot code.  Some tires have been straight across the tread, some have some camber too them.  Overinflating them for few minutes after mounting helps with getting a proper profile (also per Hoosier recomendations)

They will grow more during a race from tire pressure gain given the type of construction.

You will need more left sides to manage stagger.  You need to watch your ride heights and cross weights with the tire size variances.

The higher side of Hoosier's suggested air pressure range has worked for us.

I'd be interested in hearing what people think about the new thicker tread Vega's and how they are working vs. the earlier versions.

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: BARRY LANDAU on October 01, 2009, 11:01:56 AM
Guys.......I would stick with the Hoosiers, although the Vegas are better now and are lasting longer, they still have issues that make you want to slap on NEW ones every third race or so. If you hit the Stagger right they are great but if you are off by an 8th they will feather on the inside edge, (same goes for PSI in the tire, miss it and they feather). I have also found that the Stanley's seem to like the used Vega better then the new Vega, this maybe due to the heat cycle. Now please understand that this is on my cars and I cannot spoke for the others also I have no idea to what the Nervo guy’s would say.

You seem to have a good thing going with the Hoosier's and I would not recommend at this point to switch.

Good luck and have fun,

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: goffin20 on October 01, 2009, 12:04:42 PM
The wear of the Hoosiers is Excellent!!!  The only complaint I have had with them is the inconsistency of tire size and the Left sides don’t seem to hold air for extended periods of time.  Hoosier is very cooperative and takes problem tires back to research so I have faith that they will continue to work on improving them.

From laps 10-300 there is no significant drop in lap times so they don’t fade away as the Vegas did and we get 6 times the races out of them at least.  They enabled us to be competitive this year without having to bolt on new tires every race as we had to before with the Vegas.

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: dxa0khg on October 01, 2009, 12:49:45 PM
what tire are most using up there a35 or a40a ?, we in fla. are running the a40a as per track spec tire rule,

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: crew chief on October 01, 2009, 01:48:13 PM
What about qualifying will the hoosier come in with in the 8 laps or is it better to use vegs for qualifing. also are you able to qualify on stickes

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: two_tenths_off on October 01, 2009, 07:44:37 PM
I had an odd experience recently with a set of Hoosiers. We ran practice on old Hoosiers and ran serveral 5.4x second laps. Then we slapped on new right sides with very close circumference and pressures to the ones we took off and we qualified slow, maybe 15/100ths off the practice times, like a 5.6 second lap!

They got a touch quicker in the Races maybe down to 5.5x second laps but we never saw 5.4 second laps again on this set of Hoosiers.

Now they are off the car and marked "slow" on them.

We seem to run our fastest laps in the Heat races after practicing on old tires and qualifying on a new set. Last race we qualified on old tires to see if we improved our times.

Where we race, in our class, the points leaders and most others are using 1-2 sets of right sides per race day.

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: sprintcar39 on October 02, 2009, 08:52:32 AM

I try to use a set that I have a heat cycle on to qualify. They seem to work the best. There have been times when running three cars I run out of scuffed tires so in those instances I use new tires and use a 80 grit grinder to prep them. I run my tires for about 4 races or until I start to see a diagonal cord running across the tire. When you see this the tire has about 10% life left in and it will go away very quickly. The dimples will still be visible though.

The tires self clean most of the time...but when I have to I use a heat gun on them.

The A35 tire will be the tire of choice for many this time of year here in the upper Midwest. Some have been running a A40 right rear with a A35 right front with some pretty good results.

I have not had the sizing issue that I hear from some racers....guess it is better to be lucky than good.

My setups are not really any different than when we ran the Vega tire. Don’t be afraid of trying something different you may just find a speed secret that others don’t have. Once you run the Hoosier tires a couple of times I think you will really like how long they last and how the lap times don’t fall off.

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: Kendall42 on October 02, 2009, 11:05:50 AM
I think the Hoosiers performed very well.  I did have some minor issues with them like when they tread started to peel when flipped.  That was early in the year and I gave that tire back for Hoosier to inspect. (Eric...they still owe me a tire!)  Hoosier did address this...but you cannot flip the 35's for this reason.  I felt the grip was good and the tire was forgiving.  I did go through more tires this year then I did using Vegas last year, so I think they wear quicker. Part of that was that I could not flip them due to the tread pealing issue.   Now, I can say that they stay consistent over the life of that wear while the Vegas did not.  The Vega did not wear out as fast, but faded as it wore.  The only other thing I don't like is that issue of when the cord shows on the tire, it is pretty much done.  The tire seems to go from good to bad in a heartbeat, like flicking a switch.  So in a 50 lap race it may be good for 30 and then suddenly it just is GONE.  The cord was not showing when you pushed off, but after 30 laps it is showing but the car is still on the track!  After the race you see the cord and know why the handle went away.  Would be nice if there was a little grace period in there! LOL

But overall, the Hoosier has been a very good tire this year and kept the competition in check as everyone at every USAC event was not slapping on sticker tires for every race! 


Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: goffin20 on October 03, 2009, 03:18:31 AM
I have always flipped my a35's and a40's with much success.  race flip, race flip, race flip, race flip

But yes, when the cords show you are on ice and the driver gets quite upset...  lol

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: clouse55 on October 03, 2009, 11:20:07 AM
From what I have seen through the year the A35 is very Vega like. The A35 comes in way faster than a Vega. Durability is awesome.
      Here's an example of one set of A35's run times
       Sr honda Tampa  heat and 2nd A main
       Lt 160 Tampa 1st A main
       Sr Stock Buckeye practice, heat, 1st A main
       Sr Stock open practice Miami Valley, qualifying practice, .15 under track
           record on 4th lap set by same car, same motor, on Vegas the year before
       160 Kokomo fun race, heat, A main 1st
          Tires were junk now
A40's are more similiar to a FA Firestone, come in quick and keep getting faster.
A35's like an easy scuff in and will be faster.
A40's like a good heat cycle or two and will be faster.
Front to rear balance is better than the Vegas.
No tire will last if abused. 
I have not had an issue with roll-out, just dont let out any air while hot or they will shrink.

Just my findings over the season.



Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: Doug Adams on October 06, 2009, 02:24:32 PM
So Clouse55, if I understand your post, you got 10 sessions out of 1 set of A35s with no performance fall off

Sprintcar39, saying about 4 races (is that 4 race days of qualifying, heats and mains?) or just 4 races?

Goffin saying laps 10-300 they stay consistent

If they are quicker at first, is that driving a need for some to still put on fresh ones every session? the first 10 laps on a tire could be half a heat race, or one quarter of a main

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: crew chief on October 06, 2009, 03:43:53 PM
Also guys whats your thought on which tire is best for gualifying on.and stickers or scuffed tires

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: sprintcar39 on October 06, 2009, 04:24:51 PM
I can get 4 race days from each right side tire. Maybe a little more with Sr Honda and a little less with World Formula...depends if I had the setup right.

I am convinced that a new tire is NOT the faster than a one heat cycle/skuff tire. This has also been what most of my friends say also....okay --> my one friend.  :-)

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: LLR on October 06, 2009, 04:26:07 PM
this is what I did with the vegas last two years I put new vegas on practice cleaned them and qual. with them.Some times I think they were better sometimes worse.The thing about tires is they have molding grease on themand you need to get that off before you run them.The hoosier are the same way need to run them through a heat before you race them.just my thoughts.

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: Doug Adams on October 07, 2009, 08:21:52 PM
What do people feel about Hoosiers on left sides vs. Vega or Dunlop?

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: racemom2000 on October 12, 2009, 07:58:40 AM
We run a Dunlop on the LF and a Hoosier on LR. We tested with Vega on the left at our home track (asphalt, long track, slightly banked) but found it didn't decrease lap times for us (no-plate for Sr. Honda). In some instances it didn't seem to stick nearly as well (despite adjustments), so we went back to our left-side Hoosier/Dunlop baseline.

I know a lot of the midwestern boys do really well with the Vegas, but I guess our ambient/track temps combined with track configuration weren't as hospitable for us. We haven't counted out Vega completely (may do more testing), but in general we've been quite happy with our Hoosiers & Dunlops.

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: sfreitas20 on October 12, 2009, 11:16:30 AM
For the Left front, we use a small hard compound dunlop.

On the left rear we use several different compounds of hoosiers to adjust the handling of the car.  We also use many different wheel sizes on the left rear to get different staggers if needed.

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: Platinum Racing on October 12, 2009, 05:06:49 PM
We personally love those Hoosiers. I get more races out of these tires than previously mentioned. 5 or 6 race dates are not uncommon for our Senior Honda car, 4 or 5 dates on the Lt 160. I never had the experience of the tire just going away like was mentioned earlier but seen it happen on a Lt. WF. Sizes were always within a 1/8in for me but I always set and flip the same way every time.  I think these are a lot easier to clean than the vega tire was, just don't seem to pick up as much trash after a heat cycle.

We have not run the 35a's since May, until this week in Dayton when the weather turned cold and track temps got below 80 degrees. I got a new set of 35's and pulled out a old set and seen no difference in the two sets after practice. The 40's are perfect tire when the summer sets in, they will continue to get faster through out a 40 lap feature.

We were never out of a race because we couldn't bolt on a fresh set of tires for a feature which happened to us a lot last year. That is a hard pill to swallow for a 11 year old kid who drove his heart out to come up short to a new set of vega's.

Now for my real reason for Lovin Those Hoosiers.   $$$$$$$$$
My 2008 tire bill was $3700.00 running my 160 only half the year.
My 2009 tire bill is 800.00 to date running both classes all year.
This gave us the opportunity to travel this year and have a great time with some really good people.  Thank you Hoosier       

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: racemom2000 on October 15, 2009, 07:27:38 PM
Here in Florida, we pick up plenty of gunk on the Hoosiers, but they're easy to scrape with a heat gun. They don't seem to pick up nearly as much when they're grooved though.

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: crew chief on October 22, 2009, 08:50:38 PM
Will a a35 sticker tire be as fast as a vega sticker tire for qualifying. Im thinking for the fall nationals at ncqma next month

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: lawsonracing on December 03, 2009, 10:16:30 PM
We started to use A35 the last three races at north metro atlanta this year with others on Vegas.
I heated cycled two sets. During a Friday night practice, I let a Vega car go out a 1 lap ahead, and my son ran him down in 5-7 laps . passed him and left him a half lap. These tires come in fast, they seem to tighten the car up. A friend of mine runs I70 with Hoosiers and sunlaps on right. We run 13 to 14 psi on right in the A35. He told me he has to set the car up real loose because the a35 bite and tightened the car up. We stayed in lead lap with Vega cars last few races. My son is only 6, the youngest injr honda at our track, so we are still getting passing down. I  like the Hoosiers, they last and make it affordable.

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: hotshotracing on December 04, 2009, 11:55:22 AM
We ran the last half of the season with one set of A35's on our Jr Honda. Races and practices we totaled over 600 laps on these tires. The colder it gets the better these tires run. Did have one day in October where the temperature rose to upper 60's so we tested (at that time) our 500 lap old Hoosier vs 2 race old Vegas. There was a tenth difference (advantage Vega) in the tires which would be huge but 500 lap vs 2 race old Vegas is not bad so as the temperature rises the Vegas get better. We ran the Gobbler in Huntsville last week turning 7.4s in the A-Main which for Huntsville is decent times. I think USAC has the right idea with the Hoosiers. I ran over 600 laps on a set while my 3 new sets of Vegas sat in the closet. BIG $$ savings. Just make sure you follow Hoosier and heat cycle them in.

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: lawsonracing on December 05, 2009, 08:49:00 AM
hotshotracing; how do you heat cycle your hoosiers,Ii have been told a few different ways.

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: hotshotracing on December 08, 2009, 01:33:03 PM
I followed what Hoosier said to do. There may be some others that have found a better way but this worked for us..

It is recommended that you "scrub" in your race tires. This procedure involves warming your tires up over a couple of laps, increasing your lap times over the next couple of laps until you reach your fast time. This should be followed by a cool down lap. The tires should be removed and allowed to cool naturally for 24 hours. This can also be done during a qualifying session. 

So we practiced the day before our local race and let them cool over night. Tires were ready for racing the next night.

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: lawsonracing on December 15, 2009, 07:18:00 PM
What pressure work well on Hoosiers/ I have ran 14 on right side and 7-10 on left before. 

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: rightrear on December 15, 2009, 07:32:55 PM
If you guys just purchased a car for a novice driver what tires would you buy.  Brand, sizes and so on.  I want something we can put a ton of laps on and not have to worry about it.  I'm very green so if you can be specific that would be great.  Thanks.

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: hotshotracing on December 16, 2009, 12:27:46 PM
Hoosier's "set up" page says starting 11 - 13 for right sides when outdoors, 7-10 right side on indoor track. We started running 13 - 13.5 when it was cool and that seemed to work best for us. Right sides would gain about .5 to 1 lb air. When we had warmer weather we started at 12 and they would rise in the 13's. Want to try 13 when the weather warms back up to see how they do then because when the tires hit 14 they appeared to be at their best. Coarse the good thing with Hoosier you can test on them and not have to worry about hitting you too hard in the wallet.

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: lawsonracing on December 17, 2009, 11:11:43 AM
OK THANKS, we ran I believe 14-15 on right at Lanier/ Asphalt and did well, with dunlops on left

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: ezoner on January 14, 2010, 10:11:41 AM
OK  -- a little help here as I have not done much with the tires.  I have not had to.  If I run 11.5 x.6.5x 6 Vegas. 

I assume I need the A35  34.5/6.5-6

Which would mean that on the same 6" rim, the right side would set lower?  The Hoosier would be a shorter circum.  So gear ratio would change as well.

I have the same issue on the front tire  -- its a 10.5x4.5x6

I assume that is the 33.0/5.0-6

Title: Re: Hoosier vs Vega
Post by: ezoner on January 14, 2010, 11:57:26 AM
Never mind -- called Hoosier -- very helpful -- got my answer.