USAC Racing Forum

What do most people recommend for Sr Novice and for Jr Novice as far as a locked or unlocked rearend? Paved track.

I Believe that you need to be locked until the driver is able to handle the car then you start to introduce a smoker. The track factors are very important like is the track banked or flat and also weight of your driver. What area will you be running? I hope that helps.

He has only had the car unlocked.. Now he is racing a banked track in California, before we ran on a flat one. He seems to be doing fine but the car went a bit loose in race and everyone suggested locking it up. I think there may have been more factors in it going loose and would liek ot keep him unlocked since that is how he has always driven..

With a driver with less experience on a flat track you will be faster locked because of corner speed and then stagger playes a factor in that also. 2 questions:

How many races has he been in?

When you say unlocked do you mean smoked or totally unlocked?

we ran the flat track unlocked cause thats how we got the car so it was the only we had to run it. He got used to it and never had issues with spinning out. Now we ran our first race at the banked track, unlocked, and he didnt spin or anything it was just a little loose.

Question 1:  First race

Question 2:  Totally unlocked

Just a thought, i would try locked on your flat track and then compare both times then put a smoker hub on for your banked track a compare your times also but you need to keep in mind to work with your stagger. The main thing with a Rookie is practice for you and your driver!

Are you racing at orange show, if you are i was told that most people run locked up

if your just a little loose try to tighten the car up more and leave it unlocked, you will be faster that way.

I guess the first question is are you fast, then compare your lap times to the faster cars to consider changes also.

For Jr. Rookie, try to avoid locked at all costs, but if your driver needs that stability then you gotta do it (but try a one way first).  Locked just kills the momentum and the engine with that little tiny restrictor plate needs as much momentum as possible.

We had to lock AJ up for just one or two races early on, but we kept working with him at practice until he could drive a free left rear.  Now that is the only way we run.

Modifying to add:  Like others have said though, some tracks might be better with it locked or a one way and others might be best to be free wheel.  I would recommend finding one of the fastest kids there and asking their handler how they run it.  That is what I did in Tampa and that is why we worked with AJ until he could run totally free. :)

In our Sr. Honda we cannot get around Orange Show quickly unlocked or with the ratcheting hub. It is just way too loose, not fast loose, dangerous loose, and in Sr. Honda you can't afford to give up much controlability.

He has fun driving it that way alone the few times we have tested it but is is slow and loose, maybe 4/10ths off  the locked laptimes. Maybe there are drastic changes we could make to set it up differently Open but we have not pursued that.

I believe we ran unlocked on both the flat and the banked track in Novice without any drama.

I suggest the new Stewart 3in1 hub.  It is much smoother than a traditional ratchet, plus you can go from locked, to ratchet, to free without ever having to remove the hub.
This is probably the best new product in QM racing.

The 3 in 1 hub is a nice piece but $$$$$$$$$

Where might I be able to get a look at this hub? I heard about it at Indy but never got a chance to see one.

Ellis Shell at SSS Racing has then I know.

Is there a pic or price on it? Website? Thanks, I really appreciate it.

It looks a lot like a Smoker hub. The one I saw was powder coated or anodized black. All cnc machined. Beautifull piece. I think it was $340. Can't find a picture though.

Someone brought one of the Stewart hubs over to our pit in Indy and it looked like an impressive piece, but I wonder about the durability of it. 

It seems up front like it would be cheaper to go with the Stewart piece because it is cheaper to buy it than it is to buy the locked, unlocked and one way all separately, but if a locked or unlocked hub breaks you are out $25 - $50.  If this thing breaks, you are out $300+.  It could end up costing you more in the end.

The other nice part of it is the spacing when you change between the three.  With the Stewart piece the spacing stays the same which is sweet for a handler.

The other negative is they only have them for keyed axles from what the guy told us. 

Either way, in a couple years if the people that bought them are talking about how great they are and how well they hold up, then I would consider it.  Until then it is too much money to buy two of them right now just because they look impressive. ;)

Just get an AA or World Formula. Then you won't have to worry about pesky little things like that. :-)

You can call Stewart directly at 812-883-6995.  I know for a fact that several "Grands"champions were using that hub.  They will have an e-bay store soon.

I think AJ needs a little more time before he can run an AA or World Formula car, although he would love to try it! :)

We have a picture on our website.

http://freemanracing.com/home/index.php/Rear-Axle-/-Parts/Stewart-Quick-Change-Axle-Hub-Ratchet/Lock/Unlock/Detailed-product-flyer.html

Sounds like a great thing. But like Scott said, they're expensive. And since we don't know how they hold up in the long run.....

One more incredible invention I just witnessed from Stewart is his new adjustable CAMBER right rear hub.  He picked up 3/10ths using a RF tire for a RR with this hub.  This is not on the market yet as it is still being tested, but wow!! this will change the sport once again. 

Shades of Ernie Elliot. Had the same thought myself but was told there was no way it would be legal. But, things have a way of changing depending on who you know.............

Yes Swartz I agree.    He was the mastermind behind the independent Eagle that kicked everyones but at Mini Indy this year.  Kind of reminds me of Mike Fedorcek and the Munchkin.  Not cheating, but taking every available loophole in the rule book. Can't blame the guy for using his head.  I can't wait to see what he comes up with next.

There isn't anything in the rulebook that would prohibit some type of hub like that on the RR. 

I would be real interested to see that thing.  That would be one worth getting right out of the gate. :)

This is what the rule says:

712 Axles
A. Independent rear suspension is not permitted.

Using a splined end on the axle and radius rods to anchor the hub to the chassis giving it motion independent of the left hub would be exactly that. If he figured out a different way I would love to see it

Hard to say without seeing it.  If rods are used to anchor it, then it is suspension.  But if the shock and/or rods and/or panhard bar don't attach to this hub then I don't see how it could be classified as suspension.

Again, everything we say is just speculation until we see how he set it up.

I had considered using a semispherical splined joint on the right side drive hub and triangulating links to the left side hub. A lot of stuff in the way to work around but could be done. That would not be "technically" independen suspension but it would be parts intensive like the independent front.

Man my mind is going on this one.  I really want to see how he did it.

I just browsed through the QMA Rulebook and I don't see that line about independent rear suspension over there, so he may have a market for it either way.

Wel, I'll be danged. You are correct sir. Stuff like this is focused on the 120 and 160 classes. If you threw 350 lbs and 16 hp. at it self destruction is close behind. Unless you used exotic materials.

Can't disclose all the details because he is a friend of mine and I do not want to jeopardize his product, as it has not been patented yet.  But, I will tell you this there are no linkages, it is truly just a hub.  Should be out before the indoor season.

If it is just a hub, where does the line start to order it? :)

Hmmmm.... interesting.

Tyson,
Will you let us know when Stewart gets his Ebay store up and going? Thanks ;)

You can buy it now from Freeman Racing.com.  For those of you worried about durability, it has been used on a world formula at Mini Indy for most of the season with no problems.

But I thought you said the adjustable camber RR hub hadn't been released yet? I saw the other at Nationals.

I think he was speaking of the 3 way hub.

Has there been any progress on the guy getting his online store up and running yet?

We run Orange Show in Junior Rookie. Unlocked is scary loose no matter what we do. Last weekend we tested unlocked again and spun a lot! However, The driver went faster than ever (locked) after so many laps of driving a very loose racecar.