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Author Topic: QMA Crap  (Read 7024 times)
gtracer
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« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2011, 03:51:41 PM »

So was it the NBOD changing locks, and also wiped the program, or a member that opposes the switch to USAC.
Or most likely nobody got caught and nobody is talking
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nancyboy
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« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2011, 04:55:25 PM »

the biggest factor in the decision not to have an official membership vote was that we had seen this all before. the majority of the board was around in 08 when this all happened the first time and it was not a simple matter of letting everyone cast their vote. the number of people that attended the meeting in 08 voiceing their opinion and casting their votes either in person or by proxy was probably double the number of people that were at the track racing on a weekly basis. people were disrespected and friendships were broken. since we have followed the rules and done everything in accordance with our by-laws and have met this much resistance what makes everyone think that having the membership vote would be any different? the only difference is the club would once again be torn in half. did we make the right decision? that will always be open for debate but we think it was the best for the overall good for the club and its members. Is switching sanctioning bodies the right decision? only time will tell but we along with the majority of membership feel that this is the best direction for the club


Joe
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Indy360
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« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2011, 07:03:09 PM »

I do respect your thought process but at the end of the day we aren't racing. So in my opinion it wasn't handled correctly. No offense but opening your post with "QMA crap" just fuels the fire and makes it less likely that some of the members that have a different opinion will come back and race at Mini-Indy. People on the QMA side have their own opinion and we should respect that. Just as they should respect the USAC point of view.

To be fair your 30+ emails aren't in black and white. Unless your going to post them for people to see how are they supposed to take that as fact? The phone survey was done by someone with an obvious bias but the only thing that people actually saw with their own eyes was the special meeting where the board voted. Going by the meeting you would have to say that QMA had more supporters.

I'm not here to question your beliefs or the actual number of members on either side. I just wish the board would have thought this through a little further. Maybe waited until the season was over? Actually thought about how the other side would view the way it was being handled. At least then our children would still be racing and you guys could fight it out in the off season when snow is on the ground.

 





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Swartz
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« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2011, 08:37:40 PM »

Been through this. It is not a question of a "USAC" point of view versus a "QMA" point of view. It is a question of weather QMA owns the clubs and facilities built and maintained by clubs seperatly incorporated because they pay a sanction fee to QMA. The answer is NO. Destruction of personal property and personal threats that amount to denying children the chance to participate as a strongarm tactic is reprehensable and perhaps criminal.
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A Rod
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« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2011, 09:32:43 PM »

Indy 360,
It was voted on by the BOD to change at the end of the year. A couple of people did not like that so 4 code of conducts were given to each board member that wasnt named Jason Thomas or Mike Sheldon. Even board members that obstained. So what is in the best interest of Mini Indy is not in the best interest of QMA and you Kick the members out of QMA. Jason wants to change the rules to fit himself and causes the track to be closed down by changing locks elegally and its the BOD fault? We could have finished the year as it was suposed to be. Do not tell me if the club would have just voted it would be all fine now. Jason, Heather, Mike, and Scott Howes would have tried to keep stirring the pot and we would be in same position. Emails going out to try and "persuade" people to QMA. Their argument is weak and not in the best interest of Mini Indy but region 4. Mini Indy will lose money this year and if was to stay QMA it would continue to lose money in the future. QMA offers no help to the region or club. USAC atleast is willing to try.
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divit
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« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2011, 11:28:18 PM »

A Rod is spot on.  The BOD thought this through for a long time and had significant debate on the best approach to try to make sure those who supported USAC weren't subjected to bullying, threats, and the possibility that their kids couldn't race (due to QMA's questionable actions to prior members). 

Joe is not going to post the 30+ emails because the exact reason the BOD handled the situation they way they did was to protect those who were concerned about friendships, and bullying, so he isn't going to post them...but I know the BOD was very concerned about how many current racing families wanted USAC vs. QMA. 

I'm sorry, but a member who hasn't raced in 5 years and isn't living with our car count issues shouldn't have any say in the direction the club wants to take to try to improve.  However, I can tell you that the BOD did count their views and it still doesn't change the majority view.  The rules are very clear, the BOD followed the rules (funny part is that it was pointed out before this process that the BOD was not following the rules by the same people who are complaining that there should be a vote). 

You talk about the meeting, there were 6-7 vocal supporters of QMA when even if you just count the BOD members who voted for USAC, those supporters are out voted...another statistic for you, Mini-Indy has been averaging 32-34 cars per show, by banning the 8 BOD members, you take 19 cars out of the 32 that cannot race.  HOW IS THAT PRODUCTIVE??  This weekend there were 22 cars that went to Kokomo from Mini-Indy and that doesn't include 2 BoD members' cars...again that is over 2/3rds the cars that have been actively running at Mini-Indy...How can you say this is the wrong thing to do. 

A small vocal minority of people who care about a sanctioning body more than their own club have caused this.  There were and are very good reasons for the timing of the process and those against USAC would rather take Mutually Assured Destruction vs. accepting that the club needed to go in a different direction.  So here we are with friendships lost, kids upset, and now lawyers involved because of the small vocal minority.  Yes, there is a group of people that want to stay QMA, but they are not the majority, and as a wise Mini-Indy member said, our club is too dysfunctional to actually hold a vote that would be representative, let alone fair.     
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Indy360
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« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2011, 12:20:10 PM »

I’m not saying that going to USAC sanction is the wrong thing to do. I never have. It’s not about that. The point is the board members want the members to take these statistics/opinions as fact because they said it so it must be true. In no way do I feel that Joe should post those emails. I just don’t think that we should take them as fact because he said so. I don’t think that we should take the phone survey that Paul conducted as fact because he said so. Would any of this hold water anywhere else? The car count at Mini-Indy is a valid argument. Although this 32-34 number is a guess (if it wasn’t it would be an exact number) it is verifiable. I can accept that! You say that there were only 6-7 vocal members of QMA and would be out voted. And why should we take this as fact because you say so?

The Mini-Indy by-laws state that the BOD are the ones with the ultimate vote on keeping or changing the sanctioning body. I’m not debating this! I feel that all members of the club deserve a vote and to be heard on this issue. That is my opinion but I do understand your argument that the members that haven’t raced don’t deserve a vote. I am simply saying that at the very least take a silent vote of the members that have at least raced one race at Mini-Indy this year. It would be very easy to get a list of those members and the ones that want to vote can do so. At least then you would have some facts to base the BOD vote on.

There is no doubt that taking out the BOD cars would not be good for Mini-Indy. I don’t want this in any way shape or form. But did the BOD do anything wrong? On the back of the QMA membership form it say that all members are subject to the by-laws, rules, etc of the local club and national QMA. In the QMA rulebook is says that members can’t do anything that is detrimental to QMA or hinder the very existence of QMA. As far as I know to be members of CIQMA you must be a member of QMA. Do you guys feel the actions of the BOD are detrimental to QMA? Why has no one brought this up? I’m no lawyer but this would give someone a reason to file a COC wouldn’t it?

You guys act as though all these arguments, concerns and opinions don’t go both ways. I personally feel that USAC can be sold on its merits and not have to slam QMA. Why are people that don’t have the same opinion made to feel like idiots? These emotional arguments and assumptions are faceless. Give them something they can wrap their hands around based on something that is verifiable.

Everyone knows that Jason is a huge QMA supporter but I’m confused why he is the villain. He has a different point of view than the majority of the BOD. Some would argue he, along with Mike, have done more for this club over the last few years than the rest of the board members combined. Don’t you feel he at least deserves our thanks? Please show me something that shows that Jason would not honor a vote for USAC from the membership and I will feel differently. Until then I will continue to show him respect and appreciation for what he has done. The only thing I see him fighting for is a vote.

I respect all of the different opinions that everyone has. But that is all they are. Once again all over this and other forums people say things as though they are facts. Accuse people of things with nothing to back it up. Both sides have sent out emails to try to sway the other side. To say that its just QMA supporters is not fair. What was the USAC press release sent out for? What about the latest email from Paul?

In my opinion the board members could have easily got this through the right way. Acquire facts for both USAC and QMA. Present these facts (not opinions) to the members and taken a silent vote. You don’t even have to debate it! Then the board could have taken their vote to make it official. Could QMA kick them out for this? Were members kicked out in Lansing? What about Terre Haute? What about in 2008 in Mini-Indy. QMA had no grounds to kick anyone out in all of these cases. They obviously feel that in this case the national rules and by-laws have not been followed as agreed upon by signing the membership form. Do they have a case? Why did we even give them a reason to take a second look at the way it was hanndled? That, in my opinion, is why our children are not racing at Mini-Indy.
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Swartz
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« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2011, 12:56:53 PM »

I saw nothing in the Mini Indy bylaws that said you had to be a QMA member to join. The only thing in the QMA bylaws that applies is the NBOD can rescind the charter of a club that they feel has been "detrimental to the sport". In the past the tactic has been to throw out the memberships of anyone who does not support QMA or use the threat of doing it. Basicly blackmailing you with the kids chance to compete. Make no mistake. In past club votes people from QMA have been present taking names off of supposed blind votes and revoking memberships on that bassis. There is no reason the Mini Indy kids could not be racing now. If Indy is not an option I'm sure one of the other tracks would loan their facility. I know it wouldnt be Indy but it would be better than this.
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nancyboy
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« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2011, 01:08:04 PM »

If what you say is true 360, I will print out the votes, blackout names and email addresses and give them to you, Jason and anyone else that wants to see them and then this is all over right? Probably not because everyone will then just say i sent myself 30+ emails
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Indy360
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« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2011, 02:28:54 PM »

Swartz, You are correct that it doesn't say you must be a QMA member but please name me ONE member over the life span of Mini-Indy that has not been. If you don't have to be I want my QMA portion of my membership back. Once again I must ask. Why weren't members kicked out of the examples that I  used? Just trying to show you there are examples on both sides not just yours.

Joe, Not sure what to say to that. Obviously I have offended you and I'm sorry for that. In no way did I mean to do that. Can we then take emails from Jason with blacked out names and email addresses and take that as fact? The answer to that should be and os
Did I say that I'm a USAC supporter?
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nancyboy
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« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2011, 02:55:10 PM »

360. Not offended at all. Im just not willing to give out names unless a man in a black robe says so. when i vote for my local government officials or the president i get the priviledge of pulling a curtain behind me and i am going to afford membership the same privacy
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Indy360
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« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2011, 03:13:13 PM »

Sorry for the typo. Should say should be and is no.

I support USAC as a whole I just don't support the way this has been handled. Enough of the he said she said stuff and use facts to back up your position. Please tell the whole story not just what benefits your side. Seems pretty simple to me.

It all comes down to Jason feels the membership should have a vote and the board doesn't feel that way. Your letter from QMA says that if the members get a vote that none of you get kicked out of QMA. You guys decided to not give the members a vote and now here we are.

I'm just giving you my opinion based on information that can be backed up.Am I not? You still haven't given any answers to any of my questions. Is it because I disagree on how this was all handled. I would hope not. If we all just blame the other side how is all this going to be worked out?
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Indy360
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« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2011, 03:22:01 PM »

Just saw you r post Joe. Actually in my opinion you havent given the members that choice to privately vote. Your telling them "I know better just trust me". You could be right in the actual decision. I have never argued that. Just that it could of been handled differently.
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nancyboy
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« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2011, 03:33:48 PM »

360 you can call me anytime and i will answer any question that you have to the best of my ability. i never once have told anyone to trust me that i know better i simply ask for a choice of sanctioning bodies. truth of the matter is that i dont know better i am just stating my opinion as are you. based on the information that was given to me and the information that i found on my own usac is the better choice for mini indy at this time
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sfreitas20
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« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2011, 05:16:27 PM »

From an outsider looking in that doesn't know Joe, Jason or Indy360, I will say just what I said on the QMA forum.

It appears to me the Mini-Indy board acted 100% within the club by-laws and now the QMA board is wasting QMA members money on lawyers to fight this.  Like others then commented over there, instead of trying to stop Mini-Indy from leaving, they should be finding out why they left and try to improve their organization so the next club might not leave.

From reading your posts Indy360, it sounds like if the board did do a silent vote, you would question the validity of it anyway because it was silent and all the names wouldn't be revealed.  I hear what you are saying that you wish it was done a different way, but that isn't what the by-laws say for the Mini-Indy club.  Just like Al Gore could have been president if the popular vote counted in the United States, but it doesn't...

Elected officials have a job to do and that is to act in the best interest of the majority of their constituents, in this case the kids and families of Mini-Indy, not in the best interest of QMA or USAC.  It sounds like some of the members of the board at Mini-Indy held up their end of the bargain, while others did not.

Just my two cents...
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Scott Freitas
Patriot Motorsports Inc.
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