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Author Topic: tire treatment at fall nationals  (Read 203427 times)
ssssmoke
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« Reply #105 on: February 20, 2009, 05:45:01 PM »

your right phil, i think the best thing is to let it go as another bad qma experience and join usac and hope they handle things better.
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brt
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« Reply #106 on: February 21, 2009, 09:19:49 PM »

Ok,  been reading this post.  Had to put in my 2 cents!

Someone got this thing started, asked for info, then claimed he knew more and would fill us all in after work.  Then made a remark about how everyone else was acting after he got them all fired up.

In the handler meeting it was never mentioned that the tires would be sent off for more tests.  It was only said that the A main cars would have their tires impounded for further examination.  After qualifying all the tires were bagged, sealed, initialed, and locked up.  National tech along with local tech then inspected tires and decided that some needed to be sent out for more testing at a lab.

The folks who had been using prep thought probably thought they would get away with it….just like they had been for some time.  They most likely never considered that the tires would be sent to the lab.

Tire prep has been a HUGE problem in region 3 and at nc for a long time.  Just go to any of the tracks and look for yourself.  There are usually plenty of black marks leading onto the track and in the pit area.   Cars have been seen in the pit area with wet tires, some handlers won't even touch their own tires without using rubber gloves!

I fail to see how this can be called a "scam", or a "witch hunt".  National tech came to enforce a rule and look into the situation for themselves.  They along with the nc track should be commended for stepping up and confronting this!  Not beat down for making the race fair!

Someone said they knew for sure that 9 of the families were not cheating.  How do they know this?  Did they unbox the tire, unwrap the tire, mount the tires.

You can't get "stuff" into your tire just by driving around the track and behind someone with prepped tires.  Most all of us know that it takes a pretty good amount of time and work to get prep into a tire.  Even if your driving through puddles of "stuff" there is no way you can get enough to change the chemical make up of your tires!

A baseline tire had to be used..........that's how a baseline is created.  If the test was inaccurate, or the results wrong how did 4 or 5 tires match the baseline tire and be legal?
Somebody even admitted that they had been caught!  The test is legitimate.

What was found in whose tire makes no difference.  If anything was found in a tire that  was not in the baseline tire, or the 4 or 5 legal tires  it is ILLEGAL! PERIOD!   TracTac, Venom Juice, Got Bite, Simple Green, Hot Lap, Brake Fluid, Goat Pee, Olive Oil, Kwik Lap, whatever it is….makes no difference.  If it’s not in the baseline tire, it doesn’t belong in the test tire.

What is it that sounds fishy?  Tires were impounded, inspected, and some were sent for more testing.  Do some of you believe that your tires were tampered with?  Did Bigfoot do it?   Come on! cut the BS!

Lots of talk about following  the rulebook, and following  the procedure.  Sounds like if everyone was following the rulebook the procedure would have never been an issue.

It is very hard to read all this and think that everyone involved is innocent, and then trying to make it out that they are the victims here.  What about all the kids and families that have been racing legal and wondering what in the world they have to do to beat so and so, or what does it take to make an A main??   Some of them giving up without knowing they had been cheated.

I have to believe that tech and the lab did everything in their power to ensure these tests were accurate and done properly.  Given the time it took to get the results they most likely reviewed the tests several times, and probably even performed more tests when they got the original results.  I am reasonably sure that there was no hidden agenda, or private list.
 
Race legal or go home!  There is plenty of cheating in adult life and grown up sports. We don’t need any cheaters in a sport for KIDS!!!!!!!

If indeed some of these people were innocent I really hope their name can be cleared and this situation fixed.  No person especially a child should be punished for a mistake.

Those are my thoughts.
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ssssmoke
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« Reply #107 on: February 21, 2009, 09:30:53 PM »

seems like the handlers should be able to witness tire inspections or tires being put in sealed box. do you know if they were?
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2fast4u
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« Reply #108 on: February 22, 2009, 09:18:42 AM »

Great 2 cents brt, you know that real racers come to race and cheaters come to wine and complain about rules and procedures. They always try to buck the system. I always fill sorry for kids when i see parents acting stupid!! Leave the handlers at home and let the kids race, easy fix. Cheesy
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drakeo
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« Reply #109 on: February 22, 2009, 06:02:09 PM »

you know how funny it is you guys are talking so much about Qma and region 3 if you were not there and dont know the facts then how can you judge or add your 2 cents the BS stops when the green flag drops
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ssssmoke
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« Reply #110 on: February 22, 2009, 06:13:58 PM »

actually thats when the bs starts
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Boo
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« Reply #111 on: February 22, 2009, 06:17:51 PM »

not for the kids and there the ones we are out there for the problem begins when people
cant stand to get beat
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y2slim
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« Reply #112 on: February 22, 2009, 06:21:58 PM »

brt, Most of what you said is true.  But again, I ask you if you know you did not do anything and were 100% legal how would you feel and act in this situation?  I do hope the innocent can get their names cleared or at least put up a good fight trying even though it probabally will not do any good.  At least they can feel good about the effort.  To answer your question...Yes I did assist in unwrapping and mounting some of the tires claimed illegal right before the race. No not all nine, but I am only referencing those I know personally about.  One more thing brt.  Why only right rears?  You seem smart enough to know that doesn't make sense and yes people should know the exact results of a tests they are being punished for.  "Time will heal all wounds"[/b] (Brian Vickers) and we can all continue to do what we enjoy doing with our families.
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Phil
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« Reply #113 on: February 22, 2009, 07:47:03 PM »

So nobody was given the test data just a suspension?
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LLR
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« Reply #114 on: February 22, 2009, 09:07:34 PM »

brt, the only thing I don't agree with this test about is the handler was not there other than that will see the cheaters in 30 days.
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lm_79
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« Reply #115 on: February 23, 2009, 11:31:31 PM »

just wandering what is USAC's policy for testing tires?  USAC is going to have to be proactive in trying to keep tire treatment from getting out of control.

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D-Train
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« Reply #116 on: February 26, 2009, 12:40:14 PM »

Any more news ?
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racedirectorncqma
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« Reply #117 on: March 01, 2009, 11:40:32 PM »

I apologize for not weighing in on this sooner.  I just found out about this thread this evening and feel that the truth about several things have been conveniently omitted by QMA and needs to be addressed.  First let me introduce myself, my name is Bill Miller and I served as the NCQMA Race Director last year. For those of you who know me, you know that I have never been one to hide behind a screen name.

First let me clarify that, Yes, Tire Doping is an issue at NCQMA, but I have personally witnessed the same issue at several other tracks over the last couple of years, so it isn't an isolated issue, it exits in every region that I have visited in the last two years both as a competitor and a spectator.

Before the racing season began last year I learned that the World Karting Association had decided to drop the JTR Eagle, as it was not effective against the new generation of tire preps the karting community had developed since its adoption in 2006.  Armed with this information, I notified both Region 3 (Wade Williams) and QMA (Dave Preston) that this was an issue that had to be addressed immediately.  Their response was, simply put, "tell us what we can do."  I spent the next several weeks developing a tire claimer rule and claim form to put the policing of the situation in the hands of the competitors and I sent copies to Region 3 and QMA and then presented it to the NCQMA Club meeting in June.  At that meeting there was a motion to adopt it as a local rule for NCQMA.  The measure was put to a vote and was adopted by NCQMA, UNANIMOUSLY!  I was floored and extremely exited to say the least.  This was the club system working at its best, an issue was identified, a corrective measure developed, and a new rule was adopted.

Less than two weeks later, I was contacted by a representative from Region 3 telling me that our local rule was null and void and that we would not be supported in any way by either Region 3 or the QMA National Board should we try to enforce it, that they would handle the situation.  About this time QMA published the QMA Tire rule establishing that a Safety Director or Tech Director could confiscate tires if the tires did not meet durometer or sniffer range parameters OR if they "felt" that there was "something" amiss with the tires, I called this the "Calibrated Eyeballs" test.  Per the QMA rule, NCQMA then confiscated two sets of tires and forwarded them to Mr. Preston for further evaluation and testing.  The club was not provided any test results for over THREE MONTHS, and even then the response was that they were "Okay".  No analysis data was ever returned to the club nor was any additional information provided.

Now we come to the Fall Nationals.  The day before the Fall Nationals, Chris Murray approached both Chris Brawley (Club VP) to inform him of Mr. Preston's "covert" arrival, that he did not want anyone to know he was coming and what he wanted done regarding Tire impound after qualifying.  This begs the question as to why Mr. Murray, who held no office (NCQMA, Region 3, or QMA) in 2008, was contacted by Mr. Preston regarding this visit and not the local officials.  During the driver/handler meeting, I outlined the impound procedures to the competitors and was interrupted by a gentleman, who I was later told was Tad Fiser, stating that that was not what Dave Preston had wanted or said.  Again the question is how, at that point in time, did Mr. Fiser fit into this "Surprise Inspection".  Tires were impounded; Tires were confiscated and shipped off.  There were serious chain of custody issues, one competitor told me at the Banquet about his tires, they were impounded and he was told that they were being sent for testing.  When he inquired about them, he was told that they didn't take his tires for testing.  Hmmmm?  By the way, if you're wondering, I didn't have tires involved.

The testing results were not provided to the club until February of this year, nearly three months after they had been confiscated.  The excuse provided was that it was a lot of tires, and testing like this takes time.  By my experience, a core sample has to be taken from each tire, the sample then has to be prepared and the tests run.  If the samples are batch run, testing should have been completed on 26 tires (we don't even know for certain how many tire were tested) in less than one week.  How do I know this?  I worked up the tire testing timeline with FAI Labs in Marietta, GA when I wrote the original tire claimer rule (Is that the Lab that QMA is using?  FAI Labs can't tell me due to a confidentiality agreement that is in place with QMA, you be the judge)

Finally, the new tire claimer rule that is in place for the 2009 season, I, in all honesty, had considered legal action against Mr. Preston and QMA.  The rule as adopted by QMA is the rule that I wrote last year, and while I did use the Honda Claimer rule as a template, I do most sincerely object to Mr. Preston and QMA publishing it with his initials on it, leading everyone to believe that it is his creation.  After all, intellectual properties do have value, if nothing more than for ones reputation.  But, aside from petty revenge against a couple of individuals there's no point to it. 

We've sold one Prowler and have three more and some spare parts left if anyone's interested.  We could have spent another year with my son. My daughter had expressed a desire to drive (she's eight) but after having dealt with QMA, Region 3, and NCQMA’s cliques we've had enough.  We'll be racing something else later in the year.  For those of you who helped, Thank You.  For those of you who preferred to stand around telling jokes and laughing while a handful of members struggled to get the track back in shape after rains came, I appreciate the opportunity to show my kids the kind of people that I'm hoping they never become.  QMA, Region 3 and NCQMA have taken something that was fun and turned it ugly, but the thing that bothers me most is that I feel I have to defend my and my family’s reputation from guilt by simple association.

If you've read this far, again I would like to thank the visiting competitors who helped out at the 2008 Carolina Fall Nationals, your help was sincerely appreciated by myself and my family.
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LLR
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« Reply #118 on: March 02, 2009, 08:42:46 AM »

bill, first let me start by saying nice letter.The second is I totally agree with your letter.My name is Chuck Longbrake from reg 4 (not no more due to qma/reg4 bod)I along with another family have gotten my membership none renewed.It kills me how guys like yourself work hard to try to make 1/4 midgets better and get slapped in the face.Bill I all I can say to you is thanks for the hard work and good luck. P.s. is there anyway possible I could see your tire claim? Thanks again for your hard work.
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sprintcar39
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« Reply #119 on: March 02, 2009, 09:02:18 AM »

Bill thanks for the post. This is just the sort of thing that everyone needs to be listening to. More and more people need to start to speak up and take back control of Quarter Midget racing like you have done. This type of thing has been going on across the country by QMA. With Charlie Cagle unable to control the National Board you have people like Dave Preston along with others that just do as they please. They will tell you that QMA is run by the members.....yeah right. If QMA continues down the path they are on now it will NEVER survive. QMA also backs Regional boards like the new Region 4 board that act very unprofessional and unethical. Good luck with your future in racing.
Eric Rankine
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Eric Rankine
USAC Director of Competition
NWOQMRA - USAC .25
USAC - HPD Midget - Midwest Series
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