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Author Topic: Tires  (Read 8707 times)
lnrracing
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« on: January 14, 2009, 07:01:32 PM »

New to QMs and the debate over USAC and QMA, and wanted to become more educated.  I understand that to be competitive in QMs in the past, you had to invest in several different tires for changing conditions.  I see that USAC has declared that Hoosier will be there spec tire.  Have they also determined that there will be spec compounds at all times, or is it open? If it is open then it seems that to get the advantage you would still have to invest in several different combinations, which is more money. Is that correct or not?  Educate me, as I am looking to join a club in the next few weeks, or maybe we should stick with NCMP and karting.  Happy racing!
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Lincoln Chapple
goffin20
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« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2009, 07:11:07 PM »

It all depends on where you plan on running, 1 track or multiple tracks and where they are located.

For the most part, we only ran Vega Yellows in QMA the last two years on asphalt in Ohio, Indy and MI.  The only “different” tires we ran were the left rear for stagger reasons.  Basically we have about 6 left rear tire/wheel combos all different sizes to get us the stagger we need at any of the 8 tracks we ran at, used them for the last two years so cost isn’t an issue.

I expect USAC to be the same regarding compounds at tracks because many of the tracks are X QMA tracks.

We only ran different compounds when we ran indoors at Columbus or Ft. Wayne and at the Dirt Grand’s, but then again, we ran the Vega Yellows on dirt as well with just as good results as the Dunlap DBW or DCS’s.

Unless you race in varying weather conditions like very cold or very hot weather, the compounds usually stay about the same from track to track.
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goffin20
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« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2009, 07:15:30 PM »

As for QMA or USAC, it’s all up to which schedule fits best and what tracks are more convenient in my opinion.  They are both racing for Quarter Midgets, if you have the time and money, run them all...

It’s a choice just like everything else.

Chevy or Ford
K-Mart or Wal Mart
Nike or Reebok
Levis or Wrangler
Vanilla or Chocolate

You get the point... ;-)
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lnrracing
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« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2009, 07:26:06 PM »


Scott, thanks for the info.  

Can someone show me the math and the scenario that USAC spec's Hoosier tires are a big cost savings to the racer from what was previously ran.  By reading the prior posts and QM debates, tires are a big issue to the racers.  I, myself like regulations that make the playing field level for all competitors, especially when they are kids trying to learn and gain confidence.  When they start racing for big bucks is when that can change, and operations are businesses.  Spend more, make more.  Happy racing.

We just got our QM in November, and have already been to Columbus, Toledo, and Ft. Wayne.  We will race anything, anywhere, and anytime.  Just tell us what kind of tires to wear and we will be there!! We are enjoying what QMs have to offer, and all of the people involved, whichever flavor, brand, or sanction!  Happy racing. 
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Lincoln Chapple
clouse55
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« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2009, 07:38:01 PM »

From what I have heard (and could be wrong) that it will be a spec brand. IMHO I think this is a good idea, especially in the northern areas where early spring and late fall racing mixed with a rain shower and a hard tire dont mix. Its not like you need to buy 4 different compounds either, you'll have your normal compound that you will run 95% of the time and 1 softer set. I just reitred my 1 set of soft tires that have been ran on 3 different cars for the last 3 years. I also believe for ones that are completly new to racing need this option to learn what different compounds do, this will help a bunch if you decide to continue racing after quarter midgets.
I know you will hear a hundred times that new tires are always faster. With proper note taking, tire care, and a lot of practice, you may find that not to be the case.

We came from a year of karting before quarter midgets. I feel quarter midgets promote quicker thinking and reaction and in the honda classes especially, efficiency. And definately SAFER!! Also if you have ever talked with a driver that has ran karts and quarter midgets and has moved on to other forms of racing, most will tell you nothing prepared them better than running AA.
  
But what do I know......I'm just a dumb farmer!! LOL  
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goffin20
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« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2009, 08:16:44 PM »

My biggest complaint with the Vega was tire wear.  We got twice the racing out of our Dunlap’s or Hoosiers, which is money saved.  Tire cost between brands is almost identical.

However, when you can bolt on a set of Vegas and pickup 2/10s right off the bat and keep more consistent lap times without them falling off, well, you have to do what’s needed to keep up with everyone else that runs them which sucked because I didn’t have a choice but to follow suit.

A spec tire to me means that everyone else is running the same tire so if the tire is great or if it sucks, we will all be great or suck together.  The spec being Hoosier, well the durability will be better which again is money saved for me.

As for the dumb farmer, don’t let him fool ya, he may not be able to grow any crops but he knows a bit about racing…  ;-)
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ssssmoke
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« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2009, 08:31:30 PM »

i think with usac you will save money running hoosier tires because they last longer with a slight fall in performance. vega tires which is the "spec" tire for qma performs well but wear is terrible. vega is not a spec tire for qma but it is the only tire you will run so it might as well be. you should look into other cost between the two sanctioning bodies also. eg. membership cost for family.
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2fast4u
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« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2009, 08:45:05 PM »

I have a set of Hoosiers that we won with in spring and fall, we also started with them indoors and led many laps along with finishing up front with a young driver. Those tires will be on his car this weekend. Vega tires couldn't run 1\4 of those laps. Hey don't be so hard on yourself Clouse55, you provide us with grain and livestock along with fat deer, fat ducks, fat geese and fat turkeys. Tongue THANK YOU!!!
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LLR
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« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2009, 09:32:04 PM »

Hey, clouse you still coming down to watch?Talked to rodney today at concept he said they already got 1' of snow he's 1.5 from yea.That old dumb farmer and his kid looked good at fort wayne.Mut be the corn.
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clouse55
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2009, 09:51:57 PM »

Yep, I'll be there, as long as I dont gell up on the way LOL! The boy is pretty disapointed he cant race, wont get cleared to race till next week. We have around 5'' here but up north with the clipper plus lake effect the next couple days could be interesting. 
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Melmo
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« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2009, 12:11:46 AM »

From what I have heard (and could be wrong) that it will be a spec brand. IMHO I think this is a good idea, especially in the northern areas where early spring and late fall racing mixed with a rain shower and a hard tire dont mix. Its not like you need to buy 4 different compounds either, you'll have your normal compound that you will run 95% of the time and 1 softer set. I just reitred my 1 set of soft tires that have been ran on 3 different cars for the last 3 years. I also believe for ones that are completly new to racing need this option to learn what different compounds do, this will help a bunch if you decide to continue racing after quarter midgets.
I know you will hear a hundred times that new tires are always faster. With proper note taking, tire care, and a lot of practice, you may find that not to be the case.

We came from a year of karting before quarter midgets. I feel quarter midgets promote quicker thinking and reaction and in the honda classes especially, efficiency. And definately SAFER!! Also if you have ever talked with a driver that has ran karts and quarter midgets and has moved on to other forms of racing, most will tell you nothing prepared them better than running AA.
  
But what do I know......I'm just a dumb farmer!! LOL  

Well my little girl has done pretty good this year!!! We couldn't buy new tires every race, or weekend or even every other weekend!!! We would run the tires until they wouldn't hold air no more. But the bad part was the last couple of years we couldn't even go out and practice like we did when we started because we had to save our tires!!! But the guy next door to me is a Hoosier dealer and gave us a set of right sides and that sure put a smile on my little girls face because she got to  practice again. We used A30A's practiced 4 days real hard and race them twice (two full days) and there still good to go!!! Now we lost about 3 tenths from the vega's but the main thing is we'll all be on the same tires this year so it won't matter!!! We plan to run the A30A or A35A for the colder days and the A40A's when it warms up!!! But I do have one question for this year "Are all USAC tracks going to start the track records all over again since we have new tires and the tier 3 motors"?

Don't worry Mr. Clouse I'm in the same boat as you I'm just a dumb Ole hillbilly!!! (Morehead KY).
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Melmo In The Fast Lane!!!
clouse55
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« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2009, 02:13:37 PM »

I dont think any track record should be ever retired. The tier3 120's are just as fast or faster than the tier2's, many track records have been broke this year and some of those have been set on tires other than vega's. After QMA added the restrictor plate in the jr stocks, track records have been broken. When attempts have been made to slow cars down in the past, sooner or later guys get it figured out.   
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goffin20
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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2009, 03:28:52 PM »

I agree Clouse. 

IMO, the only time a record should be cleared is if the entire track is reconfigured or rebuilt to a different size/dimension.  This would not include resurfacing.
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MOC96
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« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2009, 06:03:08 PM »

We can talk about tire wear, lap times, cost and performance all we want but a few months ago i watched a driver bike and flip over the wall and a four foot fence, out into the spectator area and land nose first right where a guy was standing. luckily, he was an adult and got out of the way. this was not a set up error. My point is that those Vegas can perform too well and stick too much. from what i understand, these new tires will be quite a bit safer. that was a goal and that was a main reason for my USAC vote, to get my kid off of those Vegas.
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goffin20
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« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2009, 06:32:02 PM »

I was there and saw the wreck, my son was in that race and yes it was nasty and thankfully nobody was hurt.

However, I would not go as far as blaming Vega for the flip.  That would be as bad as blaming the chassis, motor etc.  It just doesn’t make sense when you have the same chassis type in the same class running the same tires that don’t bike and others that bike from the first few laps.  That would be a difference in chassis setups.

I will say over and over, the MAJORITY of biking can be resolved by simple chassis adjustments.  Most just prefer to run their cars so tight that they do end up biking and eventually bike over.

I personally choose to NOT have my cars bike and when they do, I make the necessary changes to stop or minimize the biking.


I do have a question though, a car enters the pits to avoid a wreck or because they thought the flagger pointed the black flag at them and they are DQ’d for leaving the racing surface.

However, a car bikes over and flips over the guard rail AND chain link fence, the race is red flagged for a bit while the driver is checked and calmed down but is then allowed to reenter the race only to bike over again?

Didn’t that car also leave the racing surface?  Explain how this doesnt qualify as leaving the racing surface?
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