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Author Topic: QMA Animal Rules vs USAC Animal Rules  (Read 6197 times)
sfreitas20
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« on: February 24, 2011, 03:22:31 PM »

I know this isn't the QMA forum, but I haven't paid my membership at QMA yet so I can't post this on their forum.  If I was already a member, I would post this there without a second thought about it.

I have done a lot of digging this week (several hours on the phone) discussing the Animal engines and the rules at USAC and the proposed rules at QMA because we would like to run both if the rules sync up.

Rusty (National Tech at QMA) seems dead set against going with the current rules set forth by the USAC rulebook.  He wants to eliminate the milling and decking and go with the engines out of the box.  He keeps talking about how Briggs is going to offer to replace all the heads currently in USAC (for free) if USAC will adopt the same rules as QMA.  Which sounds like a reasonable compromise on the surface and had me ready to contact James at tell him to take the deal. 

However after more digging, I found out that Briggs has also made a similar offer to QMA and agreed to do the milling and decking on the engines before they ship so they all will be within the USAC specs.  Rusty quickly defended this as not being an option because the first couple hundred engines are already boxed up so the builders would have to do this work.  For that reason he says it is easier for everyone if USAC takes the deal and makes their users switch to box stock heads.  I questioned how an organization already in the midst of a racing season switching an engine platform could be considered easy.  I also pointed out some of the details builders have told me about needing to mill the heads during rebuilds due to warping and such.  At that point Rusty's responses got quite tense so I wished him luck and ended our conversation.

I have validated all this information and I support USAC sticking with their current rules and if that means we don't go QMA racing this year, so be it.

2008 Turkey Gobbler 110+ cars --> 2010 Turkey Gobbler 30ish cars
2008 Lil 500 150+ cars --> 2010 Lil 500 70ish cars

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results.

Anyone that is a member of both and wants to consider running both, feel free to contact me and I will share more details with you in case you wish to reach out to Rusty and make your voice heard.
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Scott Freitas
Patriot Motorsports Inc.
Karnes29
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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2011, 04:09:25 PM »

Hey I just found out last week that we have been running a box stock against all the other milled and decked engines and I kept wondering what the heck is going on. Thanks to Steve Baker we should be ok for this weekend. Smiley
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CrewChief6
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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2011, 04:21:01 PM »

Thanks, Scott, for the research. With the 2011 USAC season already under way, I think changing the USAC Animal specs would be impractical.
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Lyra Solochek
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sprintcar39
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« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2011, 05:22:48 PM »

We have done our homework and have run these engines for over two years. I will tell you that USAC got it right with the specs. There have been conference calls to go over where we are at today and all those involved agree that we did all the right things for the racer and not the engine builders.

As time goes on this spec will be the best thing for racers. It will always keep the playing field as even as it can for everyone and this can all be done for under $100.00. If a engine builder is charging more than that to have the deck and head machined then you are being overcharged.

Trust me - The other organization is making a BIG mistake. And their members will end up paying for it the end....like they always do. Been there done that... remember the key issue, Thailand engines and the Japan Head....just to name a few.  Don't buy into the hype from them.
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Eric Rankine
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clouse55
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« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2011, 05:25:36 PM »

 QMA asking USAC to align their platform that USAC originated and have been sucessfully running..........



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!

I think I just peed a little!!  
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magjagmotorsports
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« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2011, 05:53:43 PM »

USAC should not change anything to align with QMA. As stated above USAC has it right already.
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Daren Garmenn
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sfreitas20
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« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2011, 07:00:56 PM »

I totally agree, USAC has it right and since QMA got an offer from Briggs to make engines for QMA match USAC specs out of the box, it should be a no brainer. 

Anyone that still runs QMA too or for those QMAers that troll this forum too, if you agree I would recommend you call Rusty, Rich and/or Tom and make your feelings known.  They have a chance to start to pull the nose up with this decision.
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Scott Freitas
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BRE
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« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2011, 10:38:37 PM »

Milling block and cylinder heads………Hmmmmmmmmm Why?
I will try to put this into the simplest form to understand I can. Do you think that a 2 HP gain in a 750 HP NASCAR engine is important? You bet it is, just Chris Murray. It might not sound like a lot but it is. That would be a .27% gain and in a typical NASCAR race on a 1 mile long track that would equate to 12 feet of racing surface. Now let’s take a 7 HP Animal engine and apply a .27% HP gain, that would be 0.019 HP. So taking that a step further that would equate to 7.2 inches per lap on a typical 1/20 mile QM race track. Have you ever been beat by 7.2 inches? Now take that 7.2 inches times 20 laps! That would be 12 feet! The point I am trying to make is yes yes yes even only a few thousands of an inch in engine design makes a difference on the race track. Racing organizations number 1 priority when creating engine tech specs need to make sure they can help to equalize performance with engine cost in mind with both of these very important. Unfortunately we still have some variation from part to part in other engine components that we cannot control, however every effort should be made if possible to eliminate the performance variations by well thought out tech specs. I feel that USAC is staying on top of their game in this department.

Thanks
Steve Baker
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WingNut
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« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2011, 02:09:54 PM »

Steve,

While I agree that a small amount of HP gained makes an appreciable difference, the numbers you use make no sense.

Power is a measure of (distance*mass*acceleration)/time.  You can't equate a .27% increase in power to a particular distance without accounting for the mass, acceleration and time components.
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BRE
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« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2011, 03:08:29 PM »

WingNut,

Maybe the way I am stating it is a little confusing. What I am saying with a .27% HP gain you will be 7.2 inches farther down the race track at the same given time on your stop watch versus not a .27% HP gain. All I am saying is more HP is energy and this will do more work and this will move the car farther in any given time frame.

Steve
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Offset
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« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2011, 04:21:15 PM »

My son does rocketry projects every year for the Pickaway county fair 4H.  The projects are based on Newton’s Laws of Motion.  Steve is using Newton’s Second Law of Motion in a practical sense for quarter midget racing.  The physics that allow a rocket to go into motion also relate to how a quarter midget travels around a track.  Great points and lesson Steve.
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BRE
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« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2011, 04:52:25 PM »

Good point Offset

Yes, How fast the car goes is all based on energy and Newton's law. Another on the car that I always payed a lot of attention was the noise and vibration especially as it relates to the drive train. For example if you could spin your axle while attached to the front and rear gears without the engine you would more than likely hear a lot of noise and feel some vibration. If you could eliminate this energy loss your engine would be capable of transferring more energy to the tire patch and the car would be faster.
Cool stuff!!!!!!!!

Steve
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Offset
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« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2011, 06:13:50 PM »

I would think a splined axel will vibrate less than a keyed one, due to the missing mass at the keyway causing an imbalance.  Has anyone ever tried a belt / pulley drive with fluid or harmonic balancer?
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sfreitas20
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« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2011, 07:06:39 PM »

By reading the forums on the QMA site it sure looks like a lot of people over there want them to just adopt the same rules as USAC too.  What a shame a few people over there have their heads in other places.
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Scott Freitas
Patriot Motorsports Inc.
sfreitas20
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« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2011, 09:24:19 AM »

The other forums are making me crack up laughing regarding this topic.  Apparently QMA is experiencing carb issues with their engine configuration. 

ROFL!!!  Does that sound familiar to Jr Animal handlers from last year? 

What really cracks me up is I told Rusty all about the carb issues we had last year to try to help him out so they could avoid a bunch of wasted time on his part as a result.
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Scott Freitas
Patriot Motorsports Inc.
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