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Author Topic: QMA - they are at it again  (Read 11584 times)
BRE
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« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2011, 12:22:49 PM »

In light of the fact that the engine manufactures mass produce engine components, the part to part and assembly variations are large enough to cause performance variations. This is and has been known knowledge for a long time. These variations are unacceptable for the racing community that requires equal engine performance. When USAC decided to allow the cylinder head and block decks to be milled to exact specifications they had the racers in mind. This allows the engine builders to minimize the variation with one of the performance parameters, static compression ratio. By allowing this all the sorting and selecting the best head and block goes right out the window. Way to go USAC! I know in our shop the additional cost to mill the block and cylinder head deck is minimal. We can perform these operations in less than 20 minutes per engine. We have a dedicated mill and fixtures that are always set up for this operation. Going forward the big question will be if Briggs and Stratton will be able to control there head and block dimensions to exact tolerances to meet the USAC and QMA specs. If they can that would allow the engine builders not to have to mill these surfaces. In the mean time it makes a lot of sense to mill these surfaces to establish static compression ratios within small fraction variations.

Steve Baker
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sfreitas20
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« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2011, 12:53:00 PM »

Well said Steve!  My response to the way QMA is doing the rules is this:

With the "out of the box" rule on the Honda engines, every track had a team that bought 20 engines and weighed and measured every part and then built one great engine with the best parts (I have heard people brag about it openly at our track).  Any manufacturer of anything is going to have slight variances so this will exist with the "out of the box" Animal rules as well.  USAC allows the decking and milling to a specific tolerance and then does tech inspections to make sure everyone is abiding by the rules.  Is it better for our sport to have everyone spend an extra $250 to get an engine decked to the specs (I would argue they aren't spending extra anyway because anyone that I have seen that runs up front is using an engine builder already) or is it better to reward the few families that can spend $15000 in order to get one great engine?  The answer is pretty obvious!

How many teams actually build their own engines and don't use an engine builder anyway?

I was about to join QMA for 2011, but this rule is clearly just to penalize anyone that already has engines for USAC and not for money reasons, so I guess I will hold off on sending in my check until they decide to do the right thing for the racers.
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Scott Freitas
Patriot Motorsports Inc.
Walker23
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« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2011, 01:15:17 PM »

Sorry I posted in wrong thread.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2011, 02:52:06 PM by Walker23 » Logged

Kris Walker
BARRY LANDAU
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« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2011, 04:32:28 PM »

WOW ..........Did I get one of those letters?HuhHuhHuh This news does not surprise me after the way I was treated last year in QMA........I am truly surprised that I have not gotten a letter.......but come to think of it I have not sent in my Membership........hahaha

Barry Landau

OH, yeah.........Blakely rules.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2011, 04:47:59 PM by BARRY LANDAU » Logged
BRE
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« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2011, 04:58:27 PM »

Cost for milling the Animal cylinder head and block to USAC specifications from Baker Racing Engines is $50.00 total, just for clarifications!

Steve Baker
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sfreitas20
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« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2011, 05:30:30 PM »

And that $50 gets you milling and decking by the best builder out there.  Just sayin. Smiley
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Scott Freitas
Patriot Motorsports Inc.
Walker23
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« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2011, 07:48:28 AM »

Make the rules the same so people can race anywhere. Doesn't make sense.

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Kris Walker
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« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2011, 10:24:17 AM »

I have to 100% agree with Steve that USAC made the right decision when they allowed the milling of the cylinder head and block.  By doing this it enables the engine builder to close the power gap from one engine to another.  After building engines for many years, I've found it takes numerous hours of swapping rods, pistons, cranks and cylinder heads to maximize an engine's performance with rules that don't allow machining of the block and cylinder head.  We all know time is money and not every racer has the funding to buy the engines and parts to have a "killer" engine built.  USAC's decision to allow the engine builder to mill the cylinder head and block on the Animal for $50 has saved the racer hundreds of dollars and closed the gap in engine performance.

Chris Murray
www.powerbymurrayperformance.com
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Swartz
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« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2011, 01:27:09 PM »

How would you be able to tell if it has been machined?
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BRE
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« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2011, 02:09:14 PM »

Swartz - Truth is if an engine builder really wanted to duplicate the factory surface finish they could. That is another reason why it makes no sense not to allow the engine builders to perform this fast and cheap operation to help level the engine performance.

Thanks for asking!

Steve Baker
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Swartz
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« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2011, 03:00:35 PM »

Thats what I figured. Seen waayyy too many "perfect" hondas to think this would be any different.
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Phil
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« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2011, 05:42:40 PM »

 Even though the majority of QMA members are asking for a common ground of rules from their NBOD officials, its not going to happen. QMA NBOD will continue to throw members out, make backdoor deals, go against their own written rules and by-laws untill there is no QMA left. 
 If you think about it, the largest, for now, quarter midget sanctioning body is ran by a small engine builder, bus driver and an electrical engineer that cannot be held liable for their actions. What do you expect?   
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SAKMotorsports
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« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2011, 10:41:28 PM »

Phil; that was funny about made me drop my laptop when reading it; if ALL members were inquiring about it; then maybe they could be held accountable for their actions but untill then; they will continue to just throw families out.....left and right.....untill there are only the choosen ones that are left...
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Phil
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« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2011, 04:46:22 PM »

 Think about it. By not allowing machining to equalize every engine and thus having to pick and piece from numerous engines to build just one, who has the advantage? The engine builder that orders in one at a time that just does engines in his free time, or, the full time builder that has an inventory to choose from? Can you say "Competition elimination?"

 On a different note. Quote from Tom Zickefoose 2/15/11 Conference call

"Tom said he feels we need to take the animosity off the website (QMA forum) and he believes it would be good to know who and where issues come from"

 Unbelievable!

 
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Walker23
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« Reply #44 on: February 23, 2011, 07:48:15 AM »

And is also the one who wants the By-Laws changed so clubs cannot make a choice in which organization they are sanctioned with.
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Kris Walker
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