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Author Topic: Safety  (Read 22021 times)
brad_tribble
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« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2008, 09:52:07 PM »

Tribble will you get off the leaning thing. I thought your kid lost intrest.

He may race again next year but even if he doesn't I am concerned for ALL the kids.  Yours, mine, everyones.  If you aren't then maybe you should look for another sport because you are obviously not in this for the kids.

Brad
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jwissmiller
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« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2008, 11:38:19 PM »

[font=Verdana]Quote -My personal opinion is that car/driver weights should be increased to allow for 1" tubes(AKA: Old Nervo Chassis), and add a small inexpensive rack and pinion steering unit to keep fingers from getting caught in the wheel.[/font]


I tried to make rack and pinion steering work on our car, it was great on pavement, but not on dirt. Since we race primarily dirt, we went back to the traditional steering.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2008, 10:25:28 PM by jwissmiller » Logged
rjmoul
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« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2008, 10:04:32 AM »

I will weight into this safety topic becuase, in our years of racing,  we unfortunately tested some of the safety features put into the cars and tracks.    There are two particular intances that I feel that if some of the safety features were NOT in place my son would have been badly injured.  The most recent incident happened past weekend.

The first I will mention is an accident in WF we had this weekend.   At Mini Indy we were coming through the turn full bore when the right front spindle snapped off.   It sent him almost straight on into the wall.   Becuase Mini Indy has one of the best soft wall systems around,  my son walked away.   

The second happened a few years ago at the Columbus Indoors.   The following is a testimony I posted at several sites:

Testimony to QM safety.

I am posting this message as a testimony to the safety that has been built into quarter midgets in recent years.   This past weekend my driver put to test several  of these safety features.   In racing (and life) it is good to take lessons from another’s  misfortune. As you read this please keep it in mind as you strap your driver in next time.

This past weekend at a QM event my driver totaled his car. In a heat race, he was running by himself. As he came through one of the turns, the car suddenly “biked” over sending him halo cage first into the barrier. As it turns out the initial impact is where there is a support pole behind the barrier. After the initial impact, his car then began spinning and rolling around a bit before coming to a rest on the driver side. .

The chassis was totaled so badly that I am not sure it could ever be fixed and sits in my garage to this day.   The initial impact  on the car  was at what I would consider a stronger point of the chassis (left side corner of the halo). It was right at his head. It collapsed the roll cage bar where it impacted at the halo and moved the ENTIRE top part of the  frame  to one side. 

The only injuries he got was two large bruises on his shoulders where the belts held him in tight. He also had some small bruises on his knee from being banged around. He was really sore the next day. I cannot stress how grateful I was that he was OK.  All the safety items worked the way they were suppose to.  I think some of the safety items that kept him from more serious injury is:

-   Crouch belt. This definitely held the belts down tight. The thing that made me think twice about it, was the fact that I purposely tightened the belt before the race because it was starting to come loose.   If you don’t use one,  I recommend you do.
-   QMA states: "There shall be no less than one-inch clearance between the top of the drivers’ helmet and the bottom of the top cage bars with the driver sitting straight, up, three inches is suggested. The measurement will be made from the lowest bar on the halo to the top of the helmet. Driver must be in car at Safety Inspection."   
If my driver was even just a .5" taller, he could have been more seriously injured. After the accident his helmet was right against the halo.
-   Making sure the belts were tight when strapping in.
-   I had padding around the steering rod. I think it helped him from getting more bruises on his legs.
-   Neck collar. During impact and after hitting the wall when he then went into a quick roll/spin.
-   The EMTs were great. Before I even got to the car, there were already 4 guys there. They talked to him while he was in the car and was very careful getting him out.
-   Good chassis builder.  There are many good ones out there.  Rob Nervo of NC Chassis looked over the car and I thanked him personally for building such a solid car.


I have been guilty in the past at thinking maybe we go overboard on safety, but not anymore.    Strap those kids in tightly.


Regards,

Bob
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Barr
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« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2008, 10:36:08 AM »

OK here are my thoughts on the leaning!  I undrestand all of the parents looking out for all the kids. DON'T!!! If the parents of the kids leaning don't want them to do it, they will put them in a seat. I have seen more kids hurt in the pits riding Green Machines, and bikes then have been hurt on the track. (I know there are exceptions) A lot of the cars are not made for the drivers to be in a seat. For the smaller kids it can be fine, I have seen some of the bigger kids try and get in a seat. they are all scrunched up in the car.There are way to cramped!. Some of the kids do hang way to far out. Some lean just a little bit, so were do you draw the line. I think it should be up to the parents and the drivers on this issue.  You can't expect drivers that have not ran seats to be forced to run them in quarter midgets. We started in a seat and my driver hated it. Dad made him stick it out and try it. We almost quit quarter midgets because he was so uncomfortable, he uses the standard interior that came in the car. He dosent reallly lean, just tilts his head. How can you try and inforce this, when I have seen kids, that have a four point seat belts (when you should have a five point) slide down throught the bottom lapbelt (in a seat) after a crash. Also  I see plenty and I mean plenty of kids with single layer firesuits, or just a jacket on and blue jeans. in a seat. Have you seen some(not all) of the kids try and get out of these cars with a seat in it. How can you justify making all cars go to seats when they don't even mandate the proper fire suits, or belts. I can agree with how they sould be mounted. Keep in mind (PARENTS) racing is dangerous. Quarter midgets are the safest kids race cars around. Have you ever been to a gokart race. No seat belts no rollcages no nothing. Crazy. So lets get off of the leaning topic already! MAKE IT THE PARENTS CHOICE!
« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 10:39:36 AM by Barr » Logged
TysonThompson
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« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2008, 12:03:53 PM »

USAC will address the seatbelt mounting points.  That alone will correct the extreme leaners.  If your kid cannot fit into a quarter midget than it is time to move on to a different form of racing. Most parents do a good job keeping their kids in.  The goal is to eliminate the chance of their head bouncing of the track.  If you turn you car on the side and your kids head is resting on the ground that needs to be corrected. I do not see many other changes besides seatbelt placement.
Do not expect mandatory seats.
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Vader
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« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2008, 12:29:05 PM »

I doubt Kevin would have brought up leaning, and shown those pictures at the webinar, if USAC wasn't going to address leaning.

While I do respect the liberty of choosing ones own fate, and it does look more fun to lean, I also doubt a child can wrap their head around the concept of being quadriplegic from an extremely rare QM crash. One day it will be illegal to smoke during pregnancy, but today, you can still see it happen.

Safety should not be politicized, or bell curved.  Safety issues should be rounded up to the safest denominator. There is a time when a kid is too big for a car, and a time when a kid is too small for a car. Safety may close these margins. An bittersweet reality.

I do thank Barr for bringing up pit area accidents. and think there should be an increase of security/safety in the off track areas.  I have stopped large packs of unsupervised kids from/while doing all sorts of dangerous stuff, on many occasions, around youth motorsport tracks.

Toad
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goffin20
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« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2008, 01:37:20 PM »

Just remember that even correcting the mounting positions of the belts will not solve the issue because some drivers wear their belts very loose to allow them to lean out further.

Now how can a belt restrain a driver correctly when they loosen them enough to lean over to the left 4"-5" extra?

Injuries can and will always happen, but shouldn’t we do everything in our power to prevent the ones we can?  The above comment about the belts being loose is a prime example of why you don't leave certain things to the handlers.
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Walker23
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« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2008, 11:42:38 AM »

How can you justify making all cars go to seats when they don't even mandate the proper fire suits, or belts. I can agree with how they sould be mounted. Keep in mind (PARENTS) racing is dangerous. Quarter midgets are the safest kids race cars around. Have you ever been to a gokart race. No seat belts no rollcages no nothing. Crazy. So lets get off of the leaning topic already! MAKE IT THE PARENTS CHOICE!

Simple, If a single layer firesuit catches fire from the friction of grinding against the concrete I would say you have a few other problems to address first.

Make sitting upright mandatory, level the playing field. Use or don't use a seat. I am not trying to come across arrogant but ask yourself what it would do if your kid sat upright in the car. Post your answers here.

Mine is younger, sits upright, weight transfer is an issue but I need to work on that.

If anyone would like to see photos of kids landing on their heads in a rollover, or getting hid in the head and back by another car PM me I HAVE MANY!!!
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Kris Walker
gwjracing
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« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2008, 11:47:34 AM »

Solving the leaning problem should be simple...no body parts outside of the cage....if you need to lean, extend the cage.  If you need to lean to make it around the track, work on your setup...will the cars tighten up late in a long run...you bet, but we're all in the same boat.
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TysonThompson
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« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2009, 02:00:38 PM »

Has anyone heard anything about USAC's leaning rule?   What about a soft wall rule.  I noticed most of the tracks that have signed up do not have soft walls.  Regardless of your affiliation we must all work together for safety. 
« Last Edit: February 20, 2009, 02:12:31 PM by TysonThompson » Logged
2fast4u
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« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2009, 07:56:52 PM »

Yes to answer your question, next month USAC will have a safety meeting on these areas you have mentioned.
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brad_tribble
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« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2009, 05:40:16 PM »

They can make all the rules on leaning but until it is actually enforced the kids are going to lean.  Black flag a few and then maybe parents would get the picture that leaning is bad.
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lm_79
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« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2009, 07:57:03 PM »

Well if you stop kids from leaning, that would make the "biking" issue worse for heavier kids. And in my opinion a kid "biking" and over-correcting it head-on into the wall would be more dangerous, than a kid leaning.

Also with the way the economy is, it could really make it tuff on people if they had to buy a hans device, and a seat.

Just my opinion
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goffin20
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« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2009, 08:05:13 PM »

OK, let me see if I understand.

We have a 2 year replacement on seat belts to follow a safety recommendation to keep our kids safe.  However, you allow a child to loosen the belts to lean clearly outside of the roll cage and sometimes even the nerf bar?

Explain how that is safe?  I know of plenty of older, heavier drivers that sit upright or lean very minimally and do fine without their elbow dragging the track or their head and shoulders out in plain site to be hit by another car.  Just look at the kids head and bodies bounce around in a car flipping with tight belts and imagine if it were one of the kids with loose belts?

Leaning can be addressed just like those that complain about Vegas biking, adjust your car to handle appropriately.  It should be about child safety, nothing less!
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brad_tribble
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« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2009, 10:05:09 PM »

I have said this before that if I, with my lack of racing knowledge and set-up ability, can set up a car so it does not bike then ANYONE should be able to.  So don't use your lack of set-up ability as an excuse to put your kid in an unsafe driving position.
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