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Author Topic: USAC vs QMA  (Read 29851 times)
Swartz
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« Reply #75 on: January 07, 2010, 04:48:42 PM »

COURT DISMISSES ANTI-TRUST SUIT AGAINST HOOSIER
 
   
(Lakeville, IN, September 24, 2009) Terrence F. McVerry, United States District Judge for the Western District of Pennsylvania, Tuesday September 15, granted a request for summary judgment on behalf of Hoosier Racing Tire Corp. and Dirt Motor Sports, Inc., d/b/a World Racing Group. In granting the request, the judge decreed the case closed. 
The court wrote in its decision, "... The summary judgment record demonstrates that the sanctioning bodies clearly want single tire rules, and that both Hoosier and STA compete to have their tires selected. Competition to become the exclusive supplier “is a vital form of rivalry, and often the most powerful one, which the antitrust laws encourage rather than suppress…” The court went on to say,”… STA has not suffered an “Antitrust Injury” and, thus, does not have standing to bring this action…” 

The suit was initiated against Hoosier by Race Tires America, a division of Specialty Tires of America (STA), manufacturer of American Racer tires, in September 2007. A month later, Dirt Motor Sports was named an additional defendant. STA has the right to appeal.

 
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sfreitas20
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« Reply #76 on: January 07, 2010, 04:57:29 PM »

Sure someone can always sue someone else to try to change something, but right now there is a spec tire in NASCAR just like there is a spec tire in USAC.

There is a whole lot of speculation on why they went the way they did, one theory is money related and the other is safety related.  The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but not something anyone outside the France family will probably ever know for sure...
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Scott Freitas
Patriot Motorsports Inc.
RBurns17
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« Reply #77 on: January 07, 2010, 05:01:16 PM »

Sure someone can always sue someone else to try to change something, but right now there is a spec tire in NASCAR just like there is a spec tire in USAC.

There is a whole lot of speculation on why they went the way they did, one theory is money related and the other is safety related.  The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but not something anyone outside the France family will probably ever know for sure...

Looking at the quality of tire Goodyear provides, or lack there of, it's very obvious what the motivation was.

This is exactly what I don't want to see with USAC. I'd like to see detailed testing data of why they Spec the tire they do. I don't know how often they are going to revisit which tire to spec. But when they do, I would like to see them be open with what the testing results were. Using sets of other brands in practice. I do feel there is a more economical tire on the market. (I won't even go into which one.) I just feel it's USAC's job to prove me wrong on this.
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Swartz
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« Reply #78 on: January 07, 2010, 05:09:59 PM »

That was one of the nice things about runnung USAC last year. There were Hoosier guys at every race we ran. Checking tires as they came off the track, talking to the handlers, taking notes. They were really nice to the drivers too. If there was problem it was addressed.
I'll guess Firestone
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RBurns17
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« Reply #79 on: January 07, 2010, 05:14:41 PM »

I would have to agree with that. Hoosier reps showed up frequently and were awesome to all the drivers. I would just like to see that continue into the future and if it doesn't see a serious consideration to switch the tire.

I'm all for Hoosier. The Hoosiers saved us a lot of money this year. But I know how tire companies are and when it's fresh they always seem to be great, but once they've been there for awhile they start to neglect their racers and ignore the problems they need to fix.

Plus I like to debate Cheesy I got booted off a certain local forum for less "arguing" than this.
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RBurns17
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« Reply #80 on: January 07, 2010, 05:25:35 PM »

I'll guess Firestone

I swear to god we have this RR firestone that came used with one of the cars we bought and this thing has been through hell. Before one of our drivers was old enough to run at the track, she ran it on an abrasive parking lot with a blue plate everyday for two straight weeks and the thing still doesn't have cords showing.
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Swartz
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« Reply #81 on: January 07, 2010, 06:48:51 PM »

I think with Hoosier it will be different. We are moving to the 600s and the spec tire is Hoosier. After that about all open wheel like Focus and Kenyon or the 600 uprights are Hoosier not to mention late model down the road. They have a vested intrest in establishing a strong relationship early and keep my credit card weeping.
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badnews69
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« Reply #82 on: January 07, 2010, 10:10:32 PM »

Swartz -- How would you know its the tire?  Could be set-up in general, could be a number of things to get the .3. 

Even if you put both types on the same car, the set-up may need to change to address the difference in the tire.  Air pressures, etc...

So to blame it on the tire seems kinda weak.


yes it can be ''just tires'' july of 08' before qualifing we ran 1 min on old tires  came in and thre on a new set of vegas, think we had 3-f/t in a row then track record, accused of doping tires. tires were inspected and durometer checked -ok , they were JUST new out of the wrapper tires with a little grinder scuff, NO other changes were made to the car. so yeah it can be blamed on the ''tires''  Roll Eyes
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GB3
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« Reply #83 on: January 08, 2010, 05:44:45 AM »

Quote
I think with Hoosier it will be different. We are moving to the 600s and the spec tire is Hoosier. After that about all open wheel like Focus and Kenyon or the 600 uprights are Hoosier not to mention late model down the road. They have a vested intrest in establishing a strong relationship early and keep my credit card weeping.

   As you move forward the reality of a Hoosier spec tire will set in. More inline with the Burns17
Statement.I've already been thru to the midgets and starting back in QM again.Once again I like a options

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ezoner
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« Reply #84 on: January 08, 2010, 10:59:12 AM »

I still disagree on the tires only statements.  Maybe your not saying it, but what I hear is you only changed the tires and with the same set-up, CG, etc... the Vegas ran better for that particular set-up. 

The question is -- was that really t he best you could do with the Hoosiers, was the driver consitenet, there are to many variables in my mind.  Maybe you are right, it just seems inconcievable to make that statement.  There are to many variables.

Also -- for guys that have ran them, what is the fall-off for the Vega.  After 50 laps the Hoosier picks up on the Vega and by 100 the vegas fall off so much that the Hoosier is better?  So in a longer race the Hoosiers would be faster.  Granted there are not many races ran that far.  Just a question.  Is the swing that fall off big enough.
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Swartz
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« Reply #85 on: January 08, 2010, 11:11:51 AM »

Ok, now that I know what you don't know, the Vega debacle at Topeka was in 2006. Hoosier had not yet started making a QM tire.
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Mark Wilsdon
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« Reply #86 on: January 08, 2010, 03:25:59 PM »

Ok, now that I know what you don't know, the Vega debacle at Topeka was in 2006. Hoosier had not yet started making a QM tire.
    Shocked Where do I start?  OK, Not sure you! know what you! know. We ran Sacremento (W-Grands) in 04, west coast distributor had a trailer full of Hoosiers people were trying, my first time seeing them. We ran AA in-door winter 05 to 06 we were given a set of hoosiers to try for our first time on track in AA. We went to Wall NJ (2006 E-Grands). Vega was giving tires away half price just to try. We went to Nervo's 2006 Gasolene Alley Nationals. Vega was trying to get people to use them, some did.  We went to Topeka,(2006 W-Grands) went with 3 cars and DCS's and GF's. Vega was there in force. We ran the first practice and rumor started to fly how the vega was .2 faster. Thats "two tenths of a second" for you that live in RioLinda, LOL. We bought a couple of sets tried them made some adjustments to cars and ran them the rest of the week. We Qualified into B-main, A-main, and D-main (AA would not run in Qualifying). I never paid over $125.00 for a set of tires. I bought six sets of tires and came from the D-main to feature and went home with alot of good tires. The only person that spent anywhere near $2000,00 was a person we all know and love and he tried to buy up all he could find. Hoosier was nowhere to be found. The joke after Topeka was boy did Hoosier drop the ball. They had been working on a tire for I guess two years and Vega swooped in and in one season became the spec tire with out all the kickbacks going to any sanctioning body. 

Please try not to believe everything you hear here. some posters may not know thier history. I am not a proponent of spec anything if it involves some one in authority getting some advantage from the deal. As we all know it always does in the form of money.  Stay safe and think positive.
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Swartz
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« Reply #87 on: January 08, 2010, 04:12:20 PM »

Yeah, I forgot about that initial development Hoosier was doing. My point still being that the Hoosiers were not there and nothing could touch the Vegas. I also did say tht the $2,000 included the Firestones bought in advance of the event for it.

Here is a copy of an e-mail I got Feb. 2007:

<IMO the lack of a spec tire at the Grands especially is a huge problem. Those in QMA that don’t travel to these events have no idea of the additional financial burden it places on teams that want to be competitive at these events. Case in point would be the last two Grands events held in Topeka . At the first event in I believe 2002 the tire to have was the YGF, if you could find one come A-main day they where going for $100 for a right rear. Fast forward to this years Grands and anyone who was there or knew someone that was there came stocked up with YGF’s.  In comes Vegas tires and totally blows away everything else and become a must have, right side sets going for as high as $250.00. What kind of insanity is that!  >
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 04:28:37 PM by Swartz » Logged
Toeknee
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« Reply #88 on: January 08, 2010, 04:42:16 PM »

I was at Topeka in 2006 western grands and it was an interesting time as I came with some YGH's for my heavy cars and this was the first event I was aware of that VEGA became a QM player. Also never paid more than $120 for right side sets and my daugher made her first A main in Heavy 160. I do remember the day UPS showed up and opened the truck door and was packed with cases of Vegas that were more expensive due to overnight freight. Mark, If I remember correctly this was the birth of the QM Vega.
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Tony Lofton
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Swartz
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« Reply #89 on: January 08, 2010, 04:48:11 PM »

Here is another good one:

Titchener Bros. Racing would like to extend a big thanks to the new owners of GT American Racecars, Robby Gentry and Dean Moslow for helping us out so much at the Western Grands, and thanks also to Pete Jackson who also gave us a lot of help at the race.
 
We were a long way from home, and the tuning tips and parts they supplied (and even help pushing off our Mod) helped get all 3 of our cars running fast enough to have a strong chance to make the A main (only one did, but what the heck, that's the way it goes sometimes).
 
We didn't realize this until qualifying was over, but Robby even gave us his last personal set of the very hard to get Vega tires to qualify on, putting his own driver on a used set so we could go out on stickers.
 
I believe the combination of Robby's business experience and clear desire to always put the customer first combined with Dean's broad tuning experience with the GT cars is going to put GT on the top of the list of QM car builders.
 
Thanks again fellas-
 
Paul Titchener
Titchener Bros. Racing - TVQMA Reg. 10
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