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Author Topic: USAC vs QMA  (Read 30348 times)
ssssmoke
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« Reply #60 on: January 07, 2010, 11:30:23 AM »

ezoner are you new? if you run qma how many people you know that dont consistently run a vega tire on the right side?
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Swartz
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« Reply #61 on: January 07, 2010, 11:32:15 AM »

Quite simply because we also bolted on a set and picked up .3 with no other changes. It was not a small sampling. there were over 700 cars there and the difference was obvious. As far as engine platforms go, anyone still got their briggs flathead qma engines? Stuff changes. Ya know, I've said it before, There are over 100,000 soap box derby racers in America and they are affiliated with NASCAR. You couldn't even fill a football stadium if every qm racer in the country showed up. You want to keep pricing people (read: competition) out of the sport? Go ahead.
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ezoner
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« Reply #62 on: January 07, 2010, 12:41:18 PM »

On tires,  the point would be that you may need different air pressures on the tire change, you may need other changes.  Just changing the tires just means that the car set-up needs to change or that the tires need to be scrubbed in before comparing or.... or....  It really not a good comparison.  Its just a data point.  I would bet that with sufficient time to practice and set-up you would get there.  I agree that if you think you just swap tires, your gonna see a difference.  You would on any car.  You would even see a difference to some extent between tire lots.  Would it be .3?  Probably not.  There is a % variance in the manufacturing process and compounds.  Its not exact.
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Swartz
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« Reply #63 on: January 07, 2010, 12:53:27 PM »

Okey dokey, I'll try this just one more time.... We went to Topeka for a regular weekend previous to the grands. Practiced one day and raced the next. We were, if I remember right, 3rd fast qualifier, 3rd in our heat and won the A main. It was a full feild of cars and we were right on the track record. Went to the grands fully prepared and ready to race. Qualified decent but were in the C main. Led the first few laps by a strait. Once they got some heat in them the Vegas blew us away. It is not a single data point or just my opinion. You been racing long?
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qmracer12
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« Reply #64 on: January 07, 2010, 02:08:52 PM »

Yep bolt on them new tires and your fast even faster if their Vegas. Date back to 06 Sr. Honda TR in 6.60's before Vegas. Grands 07 with them new tires low 6.30's after the Grand's into the high .20's. In 08 we found the trick with a min. or so left in our warm up we would come in and bolt on new tires never on the track and no heat in them. Bam fast time learned a little more the next week.  Third week we got TR in the mid .20's. Had been accused of treating tires, illegal motor ect...  nope the first five laps of a Vega are the best. But that week a few did take note of what we did.  The next week a few others gave it a shot. By the last week of our season i think about seven gave it a shot and two TR were set. Now with a spec tire times are back in the low .40's. I know that inprovements in shocks has helped that but we did it on junk E-Bay ones. Spent all my $ on tires. I would think most TR have went down .4-.5 in the last three years. But i enjoy the saving of a spec tire.

Brian Leffel
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phaster
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« Reply #65 on: January 07, 2010, 02:46:42 PM »

If you like the idea of big time politics vega tires and thiland motors stay qma if you like spec tire that last longer less politics motors on a even playing field and a org that promotes its series and drivers that needs us as much as we need them go usac tires the front runners are still going to be your front runners no matter the tire what does it matter if the whole field slows down were there to win not just run fast a lot of times the fastest car doesn't win
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GAQMRacers
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« Reply #66 on: January 07, 2010, 02:57:13 PM »

Well said, phaster -- that's basically what it all boils down to!!
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Live Strong
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« Reply #67 on: January 07, 2010, 02:59:48 PM »

We set two track records with vegas - were always stickers, med ground

We've set one track record with Hooisers - they went through; [practice, heat race, feature win], [practice, practice, qualifying (track record), heat race, FLIPPED ON WHEEL - feature win], [practice, heat race, feature win], [used in shock testing practice], [used for centerpiece at banquet...]
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RBurns17
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« Reply #68 on: January 07, 2010, 03:00:49 PM »

Obviously you were not at the grands in Topeka. The Vega tires showed up and they were .3 faster than anything else. There was a limited supply and they got really really expensive if you could get them at all. $300 a set in some cases. I talked to a Jr. Honda handler that had a tire bill over $2,000. In part because he brought tires that had worked well in the past and were now worthless. You don't want a spec tire? Fine. Make a rule that no tire can be run that is not pre approved and there must be a supply large enough to service everyone. No more sneak attacks. I think it's just easier to have a spec tire like the rest of the whole racing world where they figured this stuff out a couple of decades ago.

From what I understand. That's how Nascar does it. There's not actually a spec tire per say, but making companies bring enough to supply every single team for the entire weekend makes it to where Goodyear is the only one who can afford to do it.
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Swartz
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« Reply #69 on: January 07, 2010, 03:07:53 PM »

That's not the case with qm tires though. Every single tire in qm racing is a kart tire. Even the vega is actualy a spec dirt tire developed for karts. Quarter midget racing is a gnat on a frogs butt in terms of consumtion of tires compared to karts.
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sfreitas20
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« Reply #70 on: January 07, 2010, 04:04:51 PM »

That isn't how NASCAR does it.  Goodyear is the exclusive tire supplier to NASCAR, so it is their spec tire.  No other tire company can show up to an event as long as they bring enough for everyone. http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story?seriesId=2&id=2753420

There is no arguement of whether or not spec tires save money.  They do.  Yes teams with no funding issues will always bolt on new rubber every week, there is no getting around that.  However, if there is no spec tire rule and there are 20 different tires on the market, you will test all 20 if you want to be a front runner.  If the temperature is 50 degrees this week, but 90 next month you may run different tires, which means you have to own many different tires to be ready for every possible situation.  When you have a spec tire, you own one kind of tire and everyone else on the track does to.  It is very simple math, testing on one kind of tire and only having to buy one kind of tires saves money on tires and on track rentals for tire testing.  It is that simple.

Our track took the spec tire rule one step further and only allows Hoosier a40s on the right side and you must run the same set from heat to A-Main on raceday.  That also saves us more money because we only bought a few sets of a35s for use at the USAC District and National events.
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Scott Freitas
Patriot Motorsports Inc.
RBurns17
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« Reply #71 on: January 07, 2010, 04:32:31 PM »

Yes. They are the exclusive tire and sign a contract that states that much. But, because of possible antitrust cases, if there are other applicants then they have to allow them the chance to supply tires. Just watch, when Michelin has it's tire ready. There will be a lawsuit and it will end with both companies being allowed to supply tires with the stipulation they bring enough to supply every team, even if they don't sell to every team.
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Swartz
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« Reply #72 on: January 07, 2010, 04:34:51 PM »

Actualy, that was the issue. NASCAR demanded that Hoosier take enough tires to every race to cover the field. Since only 7 or 8 cars, if I remember right, were running Hoosiers at the time and each track uses a different tire Hoosier was not in a finacial position to comply forcing them out.
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RBurns17
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« Reply #73 on: January 07, 2010, 04:41:45 PM »

Yes. They are the exclusive tire and sign a contract that states that much. But, because of possible antitrust cases, if there are other applicants then they have to allow them the chance to supply tires. Just watch, when Michelin has it's tire ready. There will be a lawsuit and it will end with both companies being allowed to supply tires with the stipulation they bring enough to supply every team, even if they don't sell to every team.

To explain the history of the NASCAR competition.....

In 1988-1989 and 1994 there were two Suppliers in NASCAR. Hooiser and Goodyear both supplied tires for NASCAR. Because of the competition between the two the number of injuries increased because of a "win by any means" tactic both companies adopted during this time. With teams begging NASCAR for a solution NASCAR came up with the following. NASCAR still allowed both teams to bring tires but made it a rule they must bring enough tires for every team, knowing Hoosier could not afford to do this only having 10 or so teams it supplied tires to. This forced Hoosier out of the sport and left no one to contest the legality of a spec tire. That's why you see an exclusive tire contract now. But if this were contested it would go away.
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RBurns17
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« Reply #74 on: January 07, 2010, 04:48:13 PM »

Now this has nothing to do with QM racing. Just saying that that's how NASCAR really determines the tire.

But, Spec Tires in general are an antitrust slam dunk. If Vega were committed enough to a legal battle, you would see the Spec Tire go away. It's happening right now with Hoosier v. American Racer in UMP. You'll eventually see American Racer allowed into the series, or you will see them win a monetary award of 100+ million dollars. (Reading Swartz's post, I feel I need to note. This is if STA can prove they have an equal or superior tire.)

I am all for a Spec Tire. But this is just the truth. It could happened. Chances are slim, but it is possible.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 04:51:55 PM by RBurns17 » Logged
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