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Author Topic: new honda  (Read 6641 times)
Doug Adams
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Posts: 19


« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2009, 12:40:04 PM »

This Honda issue is why the Briggs LO206/Animal/WF platform makes sense to me long term for the broad majority of classes.  Not knocking the Honda, its a great engine, it is just built for a different customer base.  QMs are not a big part of Honda's world and they dont build them to suit for QM racing.

Using a race based platform from Briggs, with the right package of engine rules will create a more consistent, level playing field over a longer term.  I suspect it wont be perfect either.

If Honda had a motorports division tuned in to QMs it might be a different story.  Without that focus from Honda, we will always be in a constant state of flux with this platform, its just a commercial reality.  Its difficult to govern a "box stock" program when the contents of the box are always changing.  The cost/equal competition ideal is nice in theory but its not a practical reality.

My guess is you would see the number of classes shrink over time and the majority of the population would move to the Briggs platform classes with the cost and stability benefits winning people over.  At the top of the pile, you might still have a Deco AA for the big guns as the premier class, or some version of a modified Animal or a WF.
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RBurns17
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Posts: 228


« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2009, 01:42:35 PM »

From what I understand the Briggs is going to have a box stock class in QMs. The Briggs engines have the same history of inconsistency as the honda engines. The only problem with the Briggs engine is that because they are used for so many applications, there is an extensive history of development to these engines. I could go drop $5,000 on work to an animal motor today. That's kind of ridiculous. I just really hope when they do roll this in as an official class the rules are well thought out and thorough or else it's going to get out of hand. Which is not what we need in the sport right now.

Additionally, with so many classes already, this is just going to further stretch the car counts in each class.
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Swartz
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Posts: 200


« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2009, 02:16:37 PM »

What Briggs engine are you talking about? The only ones I have seen discussed are the LO206/Animal/WF that are purpose built racing engines and have no other application. Don't need to constantly change to keep up with changing EPA regs like the industrial app engines. They are ready to race out of the box, cheap. Wer have really enjoyed our World Formula.
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RBurns17
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Posts: 228


« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2009, 08:23:16 PM »

Race built or not, all motors mass produced have inconsistency. I don't have a problem with that. No matter what motor we use there's always going to be a problem with getting some motors that run faster than others. I just want to see USAC roll out a good thorough set of rules for the Animal motor when they make it an official class.

I think it's great. That's one of the things we were hoping for when we voted USAC. We had a go kart with an Animal motor on it, and I was very impressed with it. But, it ran in a box stock class and it was anything but.
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ssssmoke
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« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2009, 09:19:32 PM »

it cost money to go fast, if its a rc car, boat, honda, deco, briggs, drag, big block, small block, 4 cylinder, 6 cylinder, dirt, asphault, water, snow. it doesnt matter! it cost money to race and go fast! things improve every year and you must keep up with it or you will fall behind. and its not free.  oh i left out one of my favorites muddin!
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RBurns17
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Posts: 228


« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2009, 04:53:12 PM »

But when it's a stock class, it's not supposed to be outspending the competition. I think cost control is the #1 thing that's going to help bring in new members.
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sfreitas20
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« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2009, 06:58:31 PM »

I agree with that...I have no problem throwing money around later on, but at my son's age right now I would rather him learn to drive.  No better way to learn to drive then to be in a stock class so you have to learn to out drive the cars on the track, not just put your foot down and go by because your dad took out a mortgage on the house to build your engine. Wink

I look forward to AJ getting more seat time, so hopefully there will be a stock animal class for the younger kids.  If not, we will just wait until he can run in the 160s too.
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Scott Freitas
Patriot Motorsports Inc.
ssssmoke
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« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2009, 07:39:56 PM »

stock animal is the same as your honda.
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RBurns17
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« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2009, 10:02:25 PM »

I'm a little confused on what you mean they are the same. I am assuming you're not talking about speed. Because a stock animal is much faster.

They're not the same. Not at all. Shop around for all the stock appearing parts you can get for a honda, and then for an animal. There has been extensive development done to performance parts for the animal motor because they are used in such a wide array of competitive applications.

You can go drop $3500 on work to an animal motor, which will double the horsepower, and it will pass all but the most stringent tech procedures. Can you do that with a Honda? No. I mean, there are some cheater parts out there, it's very hard to pick up a huge competitive advantage without it being noticed in tech procedures.

What I'm saying, is that USAC needs to really look at the animal and study how it's used in other series and research all of the development that has been done to them so they don't miss something in the rules that might let the outcome of the race be determined by who can spend the most. Winning should be about which driver is the best. Which team has put in the work to get their car figured out. Say what you want about needing money to go fast, but that's not how a stock program should be.

It's much easier to maintain a stock motor program with the Honda motor because they aren't used in fifty or more racing applications around the country. I just hope USAC is very thorough with the development of this class.
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BARRY LANDAU
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Posts: 37


« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2009, 09:54:20 AM »

I need to apologize to USAC for a statement that I had made in my last post, I had always been under the understanding that as a member of a club in USAC that you are not allowed to vote on new rules or rule changes. I had said something to that effect, Mr. James Spink then email me and explain how the system really works………..seems very fair.  I thank Mr. Spink for taking the time over the weekend to help me understand something that was explained to me at the beginning of the .25 series wrong.
I would also like to point out to all that I was in NO way trashing USAC when I said this, it was TRULY a misunderstand. This info prior to Mr. Spink explanation was given to me by a USAC member who must not understand the rules himself. I refuse to act like some of you do on this site and trash any origination such as USAC, QMA or Outlaws because they all do so much for our kids today.
Again I am sorry for specking out of line on that matter.
Barry Landau
PS: Any  negative commits should be directed to me only, QMA had nothing to do with my statements and you should not TWIST it to that way. I will release my email to anyone !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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BuckeyeQMDad
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Posts: 99



« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2009, 12:22:33 PM »

Hey BL, Kudos for the Man-up.

You are correct in that all proponents of this sport USAC, QMA and Outlaw a like are good for the kids. It's us parents that alway seem to screw things up! Ever notice what the kids are doing 10 minutes after they wreck one another on track? Playing PS2, XBox, Football or something together.

See everyone at the Buckeye inddor Winternationals- mark your calendars. It's open to all, no sanctioning required.

http://www.buckeyequartermidget.com/Indoor%20Series.htm
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Tony Crandall
BQMRA Indoor Rookie Director
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