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Author Topic: who makes the calls  (Read 4746 times)
justracin
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« on: September 07, 2009, 06:15:06 PM »

Do the race director's or the parents ? I ask this because their was an incident at the race this weekend where a car was wrecked on the last lap.  The race directors did not make a call - the caution was never thrown -  it was the last lap and the car continued to roll around the track with the chain off. After the checked flag was thrown the parent jumped on to the track and started yelling for a rough driving call.  This cause a delay for the next race to start and a disqualification for the other driver involved in the incident.  Normally this inicident would have been deemed "just racing".  What I want to know is who makes the calls the officials or the parents.  Who actually controls the race the official or the parent.  The rules should be the same at all the tracks  - not make them up as you go.  Looking forward to responses.
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ssssmoke
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« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2009, 07:15:54 PM »

normally the race directors or judges make the calls on all races. but if you go to certain tracks or track everything is done by a certain group of people. you will see cowardly acts such as handlers running on the track begging for calls here and there but usually dont get you no where at most tracks. i know its hard when you get your tail kicked but i always take it on the chin and go work on my cars, I WILL NEVER CRY CHEATER OR BEG FOR A CALL. that was the first time i ever seen the judges gather in the tower with other handlers ears pressed to the door to make a call. i was quit embarrased for them. then the track race director, not the race director of that race (who never mentioned anything about a call ever) and i know because i was the handler, came down to make the call after the next race had already began. we were treated very good by the track race director and he explained everything as best he could. thank you. so in the end im sure all the points got tallied up just right, im assuming because they never get posted. but to answer your question everything you seen go down was handled WRONG.
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RBurns17
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« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2009, 09:15:49 PM »

After our weekend of racing, I'm done questioning where some of these rules come from and why handlers can talk race directors into making calls. We'll just race our race and whatever happens, happens.

But yes, I would like to see rule changes posted, not just brought up in meetings. Our track seems to do that quite often.
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ssssmoke
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« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2009, 09:47:56 PM »

race your race and what happens happens. thats the best thing you can do. at the end of the day everyone knows whos the best on the track. thats the one who had fun with their kid and didnt CHEAT them out of anything.
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worm
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« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2009, 10:18:22 PM »

AH RBurn17 what rules have we changed now??   other than the rule for one of your other drivers?? Blocking is blocking i thought we had this taken care of?? 
   I also understand that several other cars did this but not like your car did.   I wish i could have flaged that race cause several would have got at least the Black Flag pointed at them it is getting carried away and we have told drivers and handlers about it and still happens.  It is time for the next step.  Was to bad that your driver was the one that they got first he was not the one on top of the list of kids doing this.

What do we do to keep everyone happy??    I am open for suggestions in this matter!!  I dont know what else to do  I feel i have done plenty of warning drivers and handlers.  again sorry  it had to be your driver!!

not trying to start anything just long weekend with so many issues!!  saturday was probly my worst race day as president of the club!! (again not just you guys  everyone))  i go there to have a good time and help teach all the kids to race and have fun doing it.  and for the most part i do  just sucks that when  my kids are racing i cant be just another handler Must be part of it...  (not just saying you guys but everyone) 

We also had this issue at KQMC a couple times this weekend...    we ALL need to remember that the race is not over till all cars are of the track not just when the checkered is waved turn around and walk away....  a DQ can still be made until all cars leave the track!!

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justracin
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« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2009, 10:39:51 PM »

all cars had left the track before they called the directors to the tower.i have been told a couple off times when the checkerd flag waves the race is over.but rules change to fit who they need to which does not make it fun for anyone.you know its bad when the kids (all of are drivers)get on thier own forums and talk about how bad the calls are during the races .
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RBurns17
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« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2009, 12:54:08 AM »

AH RBurn17 what rules have we changed now??   other than the rule for one of your other drivers?? Blocking is blocking i thought we had this taken care of?? 
   I also understand that several other cars did this but not like your car did.   I wish i could have flaged that race cause several would have got at least the Black Flag pointed at them it is getting carried away and we have told drivers and handlers about it and still happens.  It is time for the next step.  Was to bad that your driver was the one that they got first he was not the one on top of the list of kids doing this.

What do we do to keep everyone happy??    I am open for suggestions in this matter!!  I dont know what else to do  I feel i have done plenty of warning drivers and handlers.  again sorry  it had to be your driver!!

not trying to start anything just long weekend with so many issues!!  saturday was probly my worst race day as president of the club!! (again not just you guys  everyone))  i go there to have a good time and help teach all the kids to race and have fun doing it.  and for the most part i do  just sucks that when  my kids are racing i cant be just another handler Must be part of it...  (not just saying you guys but everyone) 

We also had this issue at KQMC a couple times this weekend...    we ALL need to remember that the race is not over till all cars are of the track not just when the checkered is waved turn around and walk away....  a DQ can still be made until all cars leave the track!!



Wasn't talking about our incident. If I was I would have mentioned the specifics. We have moved on from that. Just saying that our team is done arguing calls made or things we think should be different. Time to just focus on racing, and if we do that right, we won't have controversies. But, it does make you stop and look at the procedures in general, and my comment wasn't meant as a way to bag on you or anyone else. I actually think you do a good job as president. Just some constructive criticism, that when a rule or penalty change is made, post it on the website for a few weeks to give those who weren't at the track when it was discussed a chance to know. The change in penalty for blocking isn't even the one that came to mind. If you want to know which rules and/or penalties I'm talking about just email me or message me on facebook. You know I am more than willing to give my two cents on any particular topic.

« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 12:56:50 AM by RBurns17 » Logged
worm
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« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2009, 08:25:49 AM »

ok thats fine i must have took it the wrong way then.   we told the drivers and handlers for awhile before we started to use the flag.  Sorry

now for this topic---  all call can be made until all cars leave the track....(as far as i know) unless your club has changed that  but i dont think any club would alow that to happen..  i would say the guys working the track that race wasnt awear they had to watch all cars till they leave the track.
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Melmo
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« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2009, 12:48:52 PM »

To start off this is just my two cents and I'm not trying to start anything or down no one.

This weekend at Kokomo we had several racers show up from everywhere and I thought that was great!!!

Now to who makes the calls? During the heats and low car counts is the flagman and race director and when we have 9 or more cars we try to have one judge on the stand!!!

Now I not covering for no one but I have to say thanks to Jeremy for what's been done this year.
The first thing is me and Jeremy have talked before the season begun and came up with a few things such as we are both there for the kids along with the club. Now yes it would be so much easier for us to start 8 cars in the Jr's. and 10 in the Sr's. but we've had so many cars show up we want them to race so we started at the beginning of the season with 10 and 12 cars and my thoughts were wow I don't know but after the first three or four races its worked out real good. So on that yes if we only started 8 and 10 cars it would be so much easier to judge and get threw everything but then think how many kids would have to go home and with starting with that many several good drivers had to set and watch!!! Now with the call making you have to remember the flagmans duties trying to watch all those cars and make calls and everything else its hard and YES I did &$%%%%% up this weekend tying to watch everything and now with the race director parts trying to watch everything and everyone behind the wall yelling at him to watch this and watch that my question is hows he really able to watch the race?

Now with some things that happened!!! I have to start off with everyone that stepped up to flag this weekend and yes there were a couple of new ones and Yes I thought they did a great job and yes one race the lead car took the checkered and the flagman keep throwing the checkered and yes he should have put the yellow with it but then again he was new at and did a hell of a job!!! But one thing is we need more people like that to step up!!!!

Now the bad part was after Saturday's problems comes Sunday and all the new people that stepped up did a great job but when it came to the Sr. Honda race I ran around looking for someone and no one would step up because they didn't want to make no one mad so what happened I had to do it and Starla was in the race and I have to stop and say special thanks to everyone that stepped up and took care of her when on the start several car pilled up and she broke a couple of radius rods that I seen but didn't get a chance to really look at it or worry about because I was flagging. But I again have to say thanks to those who to care of her. But I know one thing while up there flagging man its hard to watch 12 cars and make all the calls people are wanting but for me Safety comes first!!!

I think people need to set down and think a little bit. Everyone also needs to remember that to make a call the flagman and race director have to see it and be 100% before a call can be made and how often would they see that with 12 cars on the track?

Also the next couple of races of the season I would like to see several of the new people step up and be with the flagman and race director while the race is going on and see what it takes to do the job because there are several of the older people doing it all the time will be moving on next year and we need all the help we can get. I know I'll piss some off with this statement but the bad part is the ones that are doing most of the yelling don't step up and help at all and that's why were stuck doing it and its not right. It really hurt me when after the race Starla was really excited on her race and had several questions for me I couldn't answer none of them because I didn't see her but maybe a couple of laps!!!

So all I can ask is everyone needs to step up and lets get things back together because were there for the kids and to have fun. Also nothing said in this statement is not directed at no one its just my thoughts!!! Also with that being said I'm done with it and getting ready to go racing next weekend at Whiteland with Indy .25 club but I got to get a couples to work out this week!!! So Cally look out says Starla!!! Shocked
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Melmo In The Fast Lane!!!
worm
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« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2009, 01:22:13 PM »

well said MELMO  and THANKS i was going to flag then you did it so i was going to race direct  then i found a replacement.

after all the BS saturday noone would do that for the sr. honda kids.. and i dont blame them..i mean wow we had one guy charge out on the track start yelling at the flagman!!!  then he gets ripped by another handler as he walks through the work area.  just everyone seemed to have a temper but i dont think it was nothing to do with 12 cars. 

I dont think it is the 12 car race that scares anyone away it is the fact everyone wants to yell and scream in that class and no one wants to be the one STARTING it be telling the handlers of a call....  to me the 12 car races are the best races ever as i said in the meeting...  Blocking is not caused by having 12 cars on the track at all!!  But yes it is hard to see everything that happens and some calls will be missed but we are all human and make mistakes!!  Again not directing this to anyone at all just in general!!!!!
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LLR
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« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2009, 07:20:50 PM »

You guys are right you can make a call after the checkered has flown.Granted it doesn't happen very often.I think that's part of the problem because when it does we have things like this. Mel your right why not run the cars I hate to see kids not race.We had 12 hvy hondas on friday at buckeye and ran all of them had caution on 1st lap and went 25 green flag laps.Awesome race. Let the kids race.
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crew chief
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« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2009, 08:57:36 PM »

FIRST THING YOU NEED AT LEAST  THREE JUDGES FOR EVERY RACE PLUS A RACE DIRECTOR. AT NCQMA WE HAVE 5 JUDGES FOR EVERY RACE. THE FLAGMAN DOESNT MAKE CALLS
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RBurns17
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« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2009, 09:13:54 PM »

We only run one judge on races with 10 or more cars and things seem to run pretty smooth week to week. You could have 50 judges and you're still going to have controversy about some calls. It's just part of the sport. Honestly, from what I've seen, there's been less complaining about calls this year than last when we had three judges up on the stand.

Why wouldn't the flagman be able to make calls? He has a better view than anyone for certain parts of the track?
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ctaylor
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« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2009, 09:41:06 PM »

the flagman has a hard enough time just keeping up with the leader and laps ect.
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RBurns17
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« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2009, 10:05:31 PM »

the flagman has a hard enough time just keeping up with the leader and laps ect.

Well, we have a lap counter and scorers taking care of that. Yes he has to keep any eye on what lap it is, and make sure he knows who the leader is, but if he sees an infraction that the race director isn't seeing, I would hope he'd make the call. Just my two cents.
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