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Author Topic: Clarfication of of rule needed from USAC?  (Read 6633 times)
USACRULES
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« on: August 30, 2009, 02:17:03 AM »

Can a car(Senior Honda)leave the tracks hot chute work area go into the pit area under yellow,remove the driver fill the tank with gas and then be allowed to return to the the race before the green is dropped. I say no even under yellow it's still during the race, but would like clarification so that it does not happen again at our local race club if it is a disqualification.

1707 Designated Work Area – USAC Work rule NUMBER:6
Under a yellow or red flag condition, a car (or cars) may go into the designated
work area for repairs using any piece of equipment for repairs, but may not add
fuel or gasoline (except by track Officials to “AA” and Half cars during refueling
stops). Refueling of cars during race will result in disqualification.




« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 03:17:28 AM by USACRULES » Logged
sfreitas20
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« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2009, 03:42:37 PM »

Depends on what you mean by before the green flag drops.  If that means before the initial green flag to start the race, I don't see an issue with it.  If you mean after some green flag laps in the race (not hot laps)...then I would say no they shouldn't be allowed to fuel up.

This coming from a guy who has a fuel tank on his kids car that barely holds one cup of gas.  I might someday need a fuel stop...or I guess I could go with a bigger tank at some point too. Smiley
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Scott Freitas
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RBurns17
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« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2009, 11:54:15 PM »

I'm pretty sure we were in the race that brought this up. It was during the race. But this is the second time this has happened this year. The team took the car out of the hot chute to the pits, got the driver out, and refueled. I don't know if they drew a dq or not because they didn't make a transfer spot anyway. The first time the team took the kid out of the car in the hot chute, refueled, raced and won if I recall, and got a DQ. People kept saying had they drug the car out of the hot chute to the pavilion they wouldn't have been in violation of the rule. Never heard the final judgment on that part. But reading the rule, there's no way to misinterpret what it says.

I guess the lesson here is to make sure you're topped off before each race. But yes, the part I am curious about, which wasn't an instance in the scenarios I explained, is, do they consider refueling under the warm up laps before a no-no also. It would be nice to have a clear cut answer on this so we have something to go by. Because one could argue that "refueling during the race will result in a DQ" doesn't include the warm up laps.

USAC Development?
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USACRULES
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« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2009, 05:37:32 AM »

I believe to clarify the situation it should say in the rules, once a car leaves the staging area to begin the race, under yellow or during the race no refueling is allowed and will result in a disqualification.

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57racer
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« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2009, 09:08:55 AM »

You are right this is a DQ from race. If you are talking about what happened at KQMC last sat. It was my car that this happened to, and I was not going to allow the refueling of the car. Other handlers remove the car from the track and refueled it. I have told my son not to allow this to happen again!! We run 3 cars in two classes. The sr. Honda B-main was called to the track as he was removing the Hvy 160 car from track and was rushed to get 2 sr. Honda car to the track. Why was we rushed to get the sr. Honda B-main to the track?? If you are in a hurry to leave the track and what to push the show through as fast as you can, its the kids that suffer. Lets take the time to make sure that the kids and handlers are ready and not rushed.
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sfreitas20
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« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2009, 09:21:40 AM »

This is where I think the fueling system in Tampa is great because it not only helps to prevent people from cheating up gas, it also doesn't really allow a handler to take a car to the grid without enough fuel in it.

We all dump a gallon of fuel in a big drum when we pre-tech for the day.  Then everyone comes to "pump around" with their fuel line disconnected and thier tank empty (If they don't plan to run hot laps, they must drain the bowl as well) and we all fuel our cars right there at the entrance to the grid from the community tank.  Work pretty well.
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Scott Freitas
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worm
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« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2009, 10:52:47 AM »

everyone was giving plenty of time to fuel up cars and make any changes they needed.  The biggest problem you have is you a ONE man crew.   we had four or five races between senior heat and the bmain.  was plenty of time for someone to put gas in the car.  most every weekend i run 3 cars in 2 classes and most of the summer we ran 4 cars in 3 classes.  So you have to teach the kids to help out.  My kids can fill there own tanks and check air pressures. (but i recheck them LOL)  Grin

Also i was on the radio telling them it was a DQ and they didnt believe me. so i let it go as I was not up there for that race as i was in the trailer rebuilding shocks.  So i am sorry for this.
Hope this coming weekend goes better for you.
All and all the show this past saturday at KQMC went great.!!  Decent car count and good racing. (only seen one questionable call that was made all day)  I think everyone was happy to get done at a decent hour. Grin
thanks
Jeremy
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USACRULES
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« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2009, 11:15:27 AM »

I agree with you Jeremy with the exception of some blocking going on again! But we still need clarification on this scenario:

Tank goes empty under the warm up laps before green the flag drops. It would be nice to have a clear cut answer on this so we have something to go by. Because one could argue that "refueling during the race will result in a DQ" doesn't include the warm up laps.

USAC Development ?
« Last Edit: August 31, 2009, 11:18:15 AM by USACRULES » Logged
57racer
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« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2009, 11:19:48 AM »

Not saying it was anybodys fault my own. As far as haveing kid fuel car I have told them not to, dont want fuel on racing suit. Being one man crew not true, yes he made a misstake,will he make another,hope not. Next weekend will be great for me, going to Mich. for family reunion.
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worm
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« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2009, 11:20:33 AM »

i am sure that it is once a car presents its self to the track (warm-ups) it should be in race form.  So if they run out of fuel and no refueling is allowed in the hot chute then it would be a DQ cause once you leave the hot chute you are done...

This is the way i have taken it from a deal we had earlier this season.
thank
Jeremy
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sfreitas20
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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2009, 01:30:01 PM »

I think the input from your local club officials is more more important than that of James' input in this case.  The USAC Rulebook is pretty clear that it is for use at National, District and Championship event.  I was lead to believe that this gives the local track the freedom to call things a little bit differently than the rulebook for the weekly races.  That leads to a whole other set of challenges...but it is what it is.
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Scott Freitas
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RBurns17
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« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2009, 02:33:22 PM »

But I was under the impression some of the rules we can't vary from. Safety things being one of which. Am I wrong on this?
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sfreitas20
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« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2009, 02:57:00 PM »

Burns...I don't actually know if that is the case or not but from what I have seen, you would be incorrect on that.  Again, not claiming to be an authority on the USAC rules (Although I feel it is one of my primary responsibilities to my driver to know them thoroughly), but from what I have seen the local tracks can vary from the safety stuff too if they want to. 

Like I said before that flexibility creates it's own set challenges...
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Scott Freitas
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USACRULES
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« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2009, 09:30:33 PM »

sfreitas20,

So you’re saying that we don't have to follow the 4 year seatbelt rule! We can change it to 20 years if we want too!

We can fuel the car anywhere that we wish if we want too!

We can use any helmet that we want too!

We can use non-fire rated race uniform if we want too!

All we have to do is change it at club level!

I don't think your conception of changing safety rules at club level will hold ground with USAC!
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sfreitas20
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« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2009, 09:47:49 PM »

Read what I wrote again...Nowhere do I claim that is absolutely the case.  I said I was led to believe the local tracks had pretty much flexibility and from what I have seen they do.

For the record, I am not a fan of it at all, if you couldn't tell that by my comments regarding the challenges the flexibility presents.  USAC put a rulebook together for a reason and tracks made a decision to go to USAC for a reason so they should follow the rulebook as it is written, in my opinion.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2009, 10:19:38 PM by sfreitas20 » Logged

Scott Freitas
Patriot Motorsports Inc.
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