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TysonThompson
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« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2009, 01:39:59 PM »

I am glad you guys are on this topic again.  I think we should change the name of this thread though.  There is alot of good "healthy"discussion here.  As you all know I am in support of "upright" seating.  The main concern of mine is my daughter hitting one of these "leaners" and causing serious injury.  Nobody should have to live with the guilt of killing or paralyzing someone, especially an 8 year old.  For those of you that cannot drive a QM without hanging over the nerf, please MOVE ON to a different form of racing.
I will always have my kid in a seat, straight up, with head supports on both sides and wearing a HANS.  There still is a chance of getting injured. But, I have done everything possible to prevent injury.  AND we still run in the FRONT.
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Swartz
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« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2009, 02:04:52 PM »

I would never be in favor of mandating seats and if a Hans is necessary the speed is too great but if you feel better using it, more power to you. Back in the day when all this started the cut off age was 12. How it got expanded to 16 I don't know but if someone does, please tell. The main problem is the void in motorsports for 12 to 14 year olds. We find ourselves having to make a 3 hour drive to run 600 sidewinders, something I didn't want to do, or spend a truckload of money to run legends or Kenyon cars in order to move on to something else.
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sfreitas20
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« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2009, 02:07:35 PM »

No reference to a 4" requirement in the Nerf Bar sections of the USAC or QMA rulebook that I have seen.  Just have to extend to at least the mid point of the tire and not be outside of the tire.  Even if there was a 4" rule, I haven't seen anyone running wheels less than 4" wide, so it shouldn't be an issue.

Swartz, thanks for posting that link.  Our first car was a 400 series Fiser that didn't have the third bar on the nerf, so the first thing we did was add one.  We noticed that a right front tire could still have penetrated the drivers compartment above the newly added bar, so we made up another bar that clamped onto the frame across the drivers compartment to reduce that risk as well.  My number one concern right now is that AJ might lay his car on the side and another car could hit him and their bumper can penetrate the the top of the car and make contact with his head.  My big concern with clamping a bar across the top is that it limits his ability to make a quick exit in the event of a fire.  I guess it is one of those risks I just have to accept when I strap AJ in his car.
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Scott Freitas
Patriot Motorsports Inc.
goffin20
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« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2009, 02:11:44 PM »

Any comments on head supports or nets that keep the kids head leaned outward?  Never seemed like a smart move to me if a bumper ever came into the cockpit and the head support or net prevented the head from moving, could be fatal.

They shouldnt be legal.
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Swartz
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« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2009, 02:27:30 PM »

One thing would make all this moot. Another bar on the jersey bar. Can't lean past it. Cars can't get through it. Cost about $10. But, I would also change the track width rule that has not kept up with tires since the old blue streaks they used to soak in gas to get grip and allow 36".
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TysonThompson
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« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2009, 02:38:54 PM »

I agree with Swartz, we should have never raised the age to 16.  There are alot of 16 year olds running full size sprinters.  I also agree with the void in motorsports.  Usac can help with this, and hopefully they will come up with something.  And another thing the HALF class should be eliminated.  There is never any cars and the kids are to big for them anyhow.
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Swartz
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« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2009, 02:42:24 PM »

No reference to a 4" requirement in the Nerf Bar sections of the USAC or QMA rulebook that I have seen.  Just have to extend to at least the mid point of the tire and not be outside of the tire.  Even if there was a 4" rule, I haven't seen anyone running wheels less than 4" wide, so it shouldn't be an issue.

It's here:

D. Shoulder bar must be securely fastened to left nerf bar and rear roll cage upright
using a grade 5 bolt or better. Shoulder bar can be attached by welding, mounted
with split clamps or nerf style spuds.
Shoulder bar must be securely fastened at nerf end between the leftmost point of
the nerf bar and a point four inches inboard of that. At the Cage the shoulder bar
must be at least as high as the top of tail cone
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goffin20
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« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2009, 02:45:08 PM »

I agree, a 36" width would help alot.
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WingNut
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« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2009, 02:46:28 PM »

No reference to a 4" requirement in the Nerf Bar sections of the USAC or QMA rulebook that I have seen.  Just have to extend to at least the mid point of the tire and not be outside of the tire.  Even if there was a 4" rule, I haven't seen anyone running wheels less than 4" wide, so it shouldn't be an issue.

It's here:

D. Shoulder bar must be securely fastened to left nerf bar and rear roll cage upright
using a grade 5 bolt or better. Shoulder bar can be attached by welding, mounted
with split clamps or nerf style spuds.
Shoulder bar must be securely fastened at nerf end between the leftmost point of
the nerf bar and a point four inches inboard of that. At the Cage the shoulder bar
must be at least as high as the top of tail cone

That doesn't say the nerf has to be 4 inches, just that the shoulder bar must be less than 4 inches from the outside edge of the nerf
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Swartz
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« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2009, 02:55:09 PM »

No reference to a 4" requirement in the Nerf Bar sections of the USAC or QMA rulebook that I have seen.  Just have to extend to at least the mid point of the tire and not be outside of the tire.  Even if there was a 4" rule, I haven't seen anyone running wheels less than 4" wide, so it shouldn't be an issue.

It's here:

D. Shoulder bar must be securely fastened to left nerf bar and rear roll cage upright
using a grade 5 bolt or better. Shoulder bar can be attached by welding, mounted
with split clamps or nerf style spuds.
Shoulder bar must be securely fastened at nerf end between the leftmost point of
the nerf bar and a point four inches inboard of that. At the Cage the shoulder bar
must be at least as high as the top of tail cone

That doesn't say the nerf has to be 4 inches, just that the shoulder bar must be less than 4 inches from the outside edge of the nerf

Nope. I've seen cars tossed on this one. The nerf bar must connect to the outermost part of the left side nerf and be at least four inches from the main down tube of the cage at the top connecting point.  If USAC chooses to apply the rule differently it would be nice to know. I've also seen cars tossed because the left rear tire was inside the PADDING on the Jersey bar.
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goffin20
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« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2009, 03:10:44 PM »

Yes, dont forget the padding, seen that one myself...
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Swartz
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« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2009, 03:15:22 PM »

I agree with Swartz, we should have never raised the age to 16.  There are alot of 16 year olds running full size sprinters.  I also agree with the void in motorsports.  Usac can help with this, and hopefully they will come up with something.  And another thing the HALF class should be eliminated.  There is never any cars and the kids are to big for them anyhow.

I don't think the half class should be eliminate. Just improved. Bigger car, larger tracks. An intermediate class to the 600s and midgets. A lot of the kids that are older are still in QMs because they have younger siblings racing and the families can't split their time.
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sfreitas20
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« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2009, 03:17:45 PM »

Sorry guys, but that doesn't say the nerf bars have to be 4" from the main frame tubes.  That is talking about where the shoulder bar mounts to the nerf bar.  If anyone had a car tossed because nerfs were closer than 4" to the main frame tubes, they should question it because it just isn't in the rulebook.

As Goffin's question:
From the USAC rulebook: No restraining device may be used to keep the drivers head or body outside of the roll cage.
From the QMA rulebook: No restraining device of any kind is to be used to keep the driver’s head or body outside the roll cage, with the exception of attaching both shoulder straps to the left upright bar of the cage.

Even though it is in the rulebook, I have seen several cars with nets that force a drivers head to the left, outside the main frame tubing.  Even if you have both shoulder straps on the left upright, your kid shouldn't be able to lean outside of the shoulder bar if they belts are correctly tightened.
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Scott Freitas
Patriot Motorsports Inc.
Swartz
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« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2009, 03:27:23 PM »

Sorry guys, but that doesn't say the nerf bars have to be 4" from the main frame tubes.  That is talking about where the shoulder bar mounts to the nerf bar.  If anyone had a car tossed because nerfs were closer than 4" to the main frame tubes, they should question it because it just isn't in the rulebook.

As Goffin's question:
From the USAC rulebook: No restraining device may be used to keep the drivers head or body outside of the roll cage.
From the QMA rulebook: No restraining device of any kind is to be used to keep the driver’s head or body outside the roll cage, with the exception of attaching both shoulder straps to the left upright bar of the cage.



Even though it is in the rulebook, I have seen several cars with nets that force a drivers head to the left, outside the main frame tubing.  Even if you have both shoulder straps on the left upright, your kid shouldn't be able to lean outside of the shoulder bar if they belts are correctly tightened.


I see what you are saying now. No, no rule on the nerfs but the shoulder bar must be 4" at the top. I guess you could angle it in at the bottom if the nerf is narrower than that but the wheel offset would still be measured at the widest point that would be the 4".
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Swartz
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« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2009, 03:52:14 PM »

Scott, you got that pit dug yet? There is a cow across the road looking at me funny.
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