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Author Topic: The Animal  (Read 9186 times)
Doug Adams
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« on: June 08, 2009, 11:05:56 AM »

Any perspectives on the recent demonstrations of the engine platform?  Does it look viable for next year?  Pros and cons vs the Honda?  What might the tech specs look like?
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Swartz
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« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2009, 01:42:58 PM »

The thing I like most about the Briggs engines is that they can be repaired and maintained at a much lower cost. There is no cost efective way to repair or replace a block, for instance, on a Honda. You have to buy a whole engine. I don't know about the Animal engine but on our WF the valve springs last all year and on our 160 they lasted 1 day.
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goffin20
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« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2009, 03:02:44 PM »

One engine to start with and you can grow into and advance with will do nothing but save people money.  The animal can replace the 120, 160, stock & mod classes with restrictor plates. 

Then use the WF box stock to replace the B’s and a WF without limitations to replace the AA.  And yes, the WF can also run alcohol so we could call it a WFA.  ;-)
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sprintcar39
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« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2009, 03:46:54 PM »

I do like what I have seen and heard about the Briggs Animal. Lots of potential for the future with this platform.

Personally I think it would be a HUGE mistake to not have the AA class in quarter midget racing. While the Briggs WF is a great engine it drives nothing like AA Deco engine. I know the argument is always about lap times....but the AA must be driven different than the WF and that is what makes it unique.

The AA class in Quarter Midget racing is like the Silver Crown division in USAC.



Eric
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Eric Rankine
USAC Director of Competition
NWOQMRA - USAC .25
USAC - HPD Midget - Midwest Series
USAC National Midget - Spike/Esslinger
Swartz
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« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2009, 04:15:17 PM »

I like the AA class as well. Isn't realy anything to compare it to. The only problemm I have with it is that it is limited to the Deco engine. The best approach, I think, would be to make it open to any single cylinder engine with a max cc limit and 2 valves. There is that track in PA that runs the 5 horse mod class. Any engine. Anyone have info on that?
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goffin20
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« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2009, 04:37:00 PM »

Im not talking about a box stock WF or a WF without a restrictor plate.  Im talking about a full blown WF, just like the AA's are built.  A full blown WF on alchy will be exactly like an AA, just much much more power.

May want to watch or test drive one before you count them out.  Plus, parts are much more available and the prices are not bad.
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Swartz
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« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2009, 04:45:00 PM »

Why tinker with the WF? Our Hvy. WF was .15 faster than our Hvy. AA this weekend. Keep the money in your pocket. But, for the Half class? Go to town.
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goffin20
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« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2009, 05:05:50 PM »

I agree, but everyone's argument is throttle response which can be obtained with a WF if it’s tricked out like the AA's are.
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RBurns17
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« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2009, 07:28:23 PM »

The animal motors are awesome. Very cost effective also. Well, that is if you have a handle on tech procedures. It might just be me, but it seems like there are a ton of ways to squeeze extra HP out of the Animal without it failing in tech. That's when the cost gets out of control.
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sfreitas20
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« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2009, 08:56:19 PM »

"It might just be me, but it seems like there are a ton of ways to squeeze extra HP out of the Animal without it failing in tech. That's when the cost gets out of control." - This is my concern as well.  If the past history is any indication (and it generally is) a really good briggs engine will cost a small fortune, but I guess you could always just settle for an average engine.  I know that when my boy moves out of Rookie, we can get a great 120 for about $1000, but I have little faith that would still be the case if 1/4 midgets switched to Briggs engines.

Just my two cents worth...
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Scott Freitas
Patriot Motorsports Inc.
goffin20
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« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2009, 09:06:18 PM »

Remember Scott, a lot can be gotten from a good driver and setup.  I have seen a few with box stock Honda motors smoke some high dollar power plants on many occasions.

Also seen some fast winning motors claimed and they still couldn’t get into victory lane with them.  ;-)
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RBurns17
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« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2009, 09:46:10 PM »

I will say, we bought a go kart with an animal, and the previous owner swore it would dyno with double the HP of a box stock but it was almost impossible to catch. I believe him because he ran it in a box stock class with five different drivers, some of which many lbs overweight and it won every race with the different drivers by sizable margins. Too bad we sold that kart before I could ever race it.

I like to think that with the honda, we're kind of in an exclusive club, there hasn't been a terrible amount of development on cheater techniques and parts. Where as the animal is used in so many different applications and series that the amount of builders out there tweaking and building has made it a little easier to cheat.

If USAC has a good rules and tech plan than I am all for it. But I would like to see something thought out and developed. I would hate to see them rush it and mandate it during the offseason for next year. That would be a big risk with membership numbers. It's comforting to see USAC's track record with very big changes. It seems like they always give teams a years notice, which is what I would like to see here.
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goffin20
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« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2009, 10:04:31 PM »

Putting the claimer rule to use more often would stop those from spending so much on their motors.  I believe that was one of the intentions of the claimer rule in the first place, to keep everyone honest.
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clouse55
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« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2009, 11:13:36 PM »

 Just a few things

 The motors ran this last weekend are the animal local option 206 motor. It comes from Briggs factory sealed with a 6100 RPM limit coil. Currently the seals have to be broken to install the crank for the gearbox.

 This could open up a whole new option for racers. What probably like best is that this motor can be restricted for all different ages, experiance, and weights. What would be better than to purchase a motor you could start rookie with and run it clear through to a class that would be similar to heavy 160. And there would be nothing to keep the heavy from running slower than the lights as it is now. Would be a good way to keep the heavier, older drivers in the sport longer.   

 To also put to rest the rumor mill. This isnt a grand conspiracy to flush the Hondas down the toilet. Hondas will always have a place just like the deco's.

 By being pro-active and looking into affordable performance, my hat goes off to the Toledo club for taking a big step into the future of quarter midget racing.   
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sfreitas20
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« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2009, 12:11:24 AM »

There is no doubt the driver is the most important part of it.

However I have seen it in other forms of racing where a really good briggs engine block goes for $3500 - $4000 instead of the stock price of well under $1000 because it was one of the good engines (either because it was cheated up or because it was just one of the good ones off the production line).

I get that Honda engines aren't made specifically for racing, but does that mean they aren't suitable for racing?  Most Saturday night special racing classes use engines that were designed for passenger cars, but are still suitable for racing engines with some modifications.

I think it is good they are looking at all the options, but someone really needs to do their homework before a change like this is mandated. 

Consider the initial cost to all the teams to sell their current engines (while the market is saturated with good engines because everyone is selling them) and then purchase all new engines.  It will take many years for most teams to realize any cost savings as a result of a change, if ever.
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Scott Freitas
Patriot Motorsports Inc.
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