USAC Racing Forum

General Chat => Point .25 => Topic started by: TysonThompson on September 30, 2008, 10:35:59 AM



Title: Safety
Post by: TysonThompson on September 30, 2008, 10:35:59 AM
Lets use this forum to discuss what changes we would like to see on the Safety front.  I do all I can to keep my kid safe.  However, there are parents that are new to racing and do not know any better.  That is where rule changes will help. So lets speak our mind here.  USAC will listen.


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: Vader on September 30, 2008, 07:56:09 PM
This summer, the QM Safety Buz, has been
  • Soft Walls
  • Leaning
  • Head and Neck Restraints

You can see what people have been saying at
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/QuarterMidgetSafety/ (http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/QuarterMidgetSafety/)

I have a lot of faith in USAC,
TA
[/list]


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: Seipy on September 30, 2008, 08:19:24 PM
I certainly agree the leaning is NOT right. What other class allows you to do it. What purpose is the cage when you are half way out?? Also the fireproof helmet?? How many other classes require this helmet? Slingshots? Micros? Modified 600's?? How can they stress the importance of th ehelmet when they leave them lean out of the car?? Just my thoughts. Thanks!


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: goffin20 on September 30, 2008, 08:40:37 PM
Safety issues to me are

1. Leaning out of car, especially past nerf bar.
2. Walls, guard rails and walls that are solid need to be changed to some type of soft walls.


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: mod9 on September 30, 2008, 08:45:29 PM
even though the cost would be a blow to the finances in the the short term in the long run i think a head and neck restraint system would be huge.i see it in alot of other forms of racing where guys will spend 4k on tires in a year but they wont spend a penny on a restraint system.

all the opinions from above are very awsome .


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: brad_tribble on September 30, 2008, 10:11:32 PM
LEANING, LEANING, LEANING. 

Proper restraint installation in the cars.  No more having both belts on 1 upright. 

We use a HANS device but that is our choice.  If you don't value your kid that is your problem.
 


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: TysonThompson on October 01, 2008, 09:50:12 AM
My kid also wears a HANS.  And I think a rule change that required a head and neck restraint is a great idea.  However, In reality many people will fight it because of the cost.  My feelings originally were that if you could not afford a head and neck restraint you should not be racing in the first place.  Know, I think we (USAC or QMA) should give a presentation on the benefits of a head and neck restraint and the dangers of not using one.  Maybe going as far as strongly suggesting one.  That will put the decision back onto the parent.  I do not want to see a CHILD injured or killed, because their parents were not aware of the safety sytems available to them.  Alot of the Jr. kids at our club are wearing hans or hutchins.  And, by the way ,I watch kids sitting straight up in hvy 160 and world formula win easily over the kids that are leaning.  I have submitted an RCP about seat belt placement and it passed at the club level.


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: Walker23 on October 02, 2008, 06:23:19 AM
What good is a $800 HANS if your head still hits the pavement first or your kids gets hit in the shoulder by a tire or front bumper?
HANS devices are designed to work with the driver upright in the chassis. If you are leaning out of a car with a HANS device on I feel you wasted a lot of money.

My son sits upright and in a seat last weekend he still had a tire bump him in the left arm. NOTE TO SELF: Put taller nerfbar in the car.

I haven't been around for long in this sport but have raced for 15 years prior I have never seen a QM spin to the right. The most vaulnerable area of the car is generally the open cockpit on the left side.


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: TysonThompson on October 02, 2008, 09:11:34 AM
My daughter sits upright, in a seat, with a hans!!!!  I agree that the left side is the most dangerous area.  I think a three bar nerf should be mandatory.  USAC addressed the leaning issue last night in the Webinar. Their opinion on that alone will have me voting for our club to go USAC.
I think USAC is on the right track to making this a safer sport.  So in my opinion, USAC is addressing safety head on. QMA has turned their head on the topic.  VOTE USAC!!!!


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: dgriffin on October 02, 2008, 09:27:09 AM
The millium quarter midget comes with a bar built into frame to cage to protect the driver and also a top cage bar to close in top of cage from a front bumber of another car getting into driver in a crash I think car builders need to address this and build all cars like this and I could see usac making a rule for this to be a added saftey feature.I can seen anyone pics of cars if they would like to see how it is installed on car.


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: mothersworry27 on October 02, 2008, 04:56:17 PM
If we can't get a vote on no leaning (or driver must be entirely between rollcage uprights) lets vote to make the cars a foot wider.


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: goffin20 on October 02, 2008, 05:32:03 PM
The cars are built fine, easier to correct leaning.


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: oldtimer on October 02, 2008, 08:24:31 PM
Tribble will you get off the leaning thing. I thought your kid lost intrest.


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: gwjracing on October 02, 2008, 08:28:08 PM
Wow! I like what I'm hearing here;  QMA does not want to discuss these issues.  The "old timers tell me we can't win without leaning.  My son is competative.....He races with an R3 head restraint, no leaning, we have an extra bar welded on the left side of the cockpit.  My personal opinion is that car/driver weights should be increased to allow for 1" tubes(AKA: Old Nervo Chassis), and add a small inexpensive rack and pinion steering unit to keep fingers from getting caught in the wheel.  If all of these things were done, very few injuries would occur.  The extra cost would be more than made up with a spec tire (hard) and some improved motor platforms. 


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: Vader on October 02, 2008, 08:32:33 PM
I am glad USAC is addressing Leaning, and I am glad Tribble is too.

Toad
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/QuarterMidgetSafety/ (http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/QuarterMidgetSafety/)
http://www.quartermidgetcentral.com (http://www.quartermidgetcentral.com)

BTW check out the spread I did on the webinar on the home page of quartermidgetcentral


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: brad_tribble on October 02, 2008, 09:52:07 PM
Tribble will you get off the leaning thing. I thought your kid lost intrest.

He may race again next year but even if he doesn't I am concerned for ALL the kids.  Yours, mine, everyones.  If you aren't then maybe you should look for another sport because you are obviously not in this for the kids.

Brad


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: jwissmiller on October 02, 2008, 11:38:19 PM
[font=Verdana]Quote -My personal opinion is that car/driver weights should be increased to allow for 1" tubes(AKA: Old Nervo Chassis), and add a small inexpensive rack and pinion steering unit to keep fingers from getting caught in the wheel.[/font]


I tried to make rack and pinion steering work on our car, it was great on pavement, but not on dirt. Since we race primarily dirt, we went back to the traditional steering.


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: rjmoul on October 03, 2008, 10:04:32 AM
I will weight into this safety topic becuase, in our years of racing,  we unfortunately tested some of the safety features put into the cars and tracks.    There are two particular intances that I feel that if some of the safety features were NOT in place my son would have been badly injured.  The most recent incident happened past weekend.

The first I will mention is an accident in WF we had this weekend.   At Mini Indy we were coming through the turn full bore when the right front spindle snapped off.   It sent him almost straight on into the wall.   Becuase Mini Indy has one of the best soft wall systems around,  my son walked away.   

The second happened a few years ago at the Columbus Indoors.   The following is a testimony I posted at several sites:

Testimony to QM safety.

I am posting this message as a testimony to the safety that has been built into quarter midgets in recent years.   This past weekend my driver put to test several  of these safety features.   In racing (and life) it is good to take lessons from another’s  misfortune. As you read this please keep it in mind as you strap your driver in next time.

This past weekend at a QM event my driver totaled his car. In a heat race, he was running by himself. As he came through one of the turns, the car suddenly “biked” over sending him halo cage first into the barrier. As it turns out the initial impact is where there is a support pole behind the barrier. After the initial impact, his car then began spinning and rolling around a bit before coming to a rest on the driver side. .

The chassis was totaled so badly that I am not sure it could ever be fixed and sits in my garage to this day.   The initial impact  on the car  was at what I would consider a stronger point of the chassis (left side corner of the halo). It was right at his head. It collapsed the roll cage bar where it impacted at the halo and moved the ENTIRE top part of the  frame  to one side. 

The only injuries he got was two large bruises on his shoulders where the belts held him in tight. He also had some small bruises on his knee from being banged around. He was really sore the next day. I cannot stress how grateful I was that he was OK.  All the safety items worked the way they were suppose to.  I think some of the safety items that kept him from more serious injury is:

-   Crouch belt. This definitely held the belts down tight. The thing that made me think twice about it, was the fact that I purposely tightened the belt before the race because it was starting to come loose.   If you don’t use one,  I recommend you do.
-   QMA states: "There shall be no less than one-inch clearance between the top of the drivers’ helmet and the bottom of the top cage bars with the driver sitting straight, up, three inches is suggested. The measurement will be made from the lowest bar on the halo to the top of the helmet. Driver must be in car at Safety Inspection."   
If my driver was even just a .5" taller, he could have been more seriously injured. After the accident his helmet was right against the halo.
-   Making sure the belts were tight when strapping in.
-   I had padding around the steering rod. I think it helped him from getting more bruises on his legs.
-   Neck collar. During impact and after hitting the wall when he then went into a quick roll/spin.
-   The EMTs were great. Before I even got to the car, there were already 4 guys there. They talked to him while he was in the car and was very careful getting him out.
-   Good chassis builder.  There are many good ones out there.  Rob Nervo of NC Chassis looked over the car and I thanked him personally for building such a solid car.


I have been guilty in the past at thinking maybe we go overboard on safety, but not anymore.    Strap those kids in tightly.


Regards,

Bob


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: Barr on October 03, 2008, 10:36:08 AM
OK here are my thoughts on the leaning!  I undrestand all of the parents looking out for all the kids. DON'T!!! If the parents of the kids leaning don't want them to do it, they will put them in a seat. I have seen more kids hurt in the pits riding Green Machines, and bikes then have been hurt on the track. (I know there are exceptions) A lot of the cars are not made for the drivers to be in a seat. For the smaller kids it can be fine, I have seen some of the bigger kids try and get in a seat. they are all scrunched up in the car.There are way to cramped!. Some of the kids do hang way to far out. Some lean just a little bit, so were do you draw the line. I think it should be up to the parents and the drivers on this issue.  You can't expect drivers that have not ran seats to be forced to run them in quarter midgets. We started in a seat and my driver hated it. Dad made him stick it out and try it. We almost quit quarter midgets because he was so uncomfortable, he uses the standard interior that came in the car. He dosent reallly lean, just tilts his head. How can you try and inforce this, when I have seen kids, that have a four point seat belts (when you should have a five point) slide down throught the bottom lapbelt (in a seat) after a crash. Also  I see plenty and I mean plenty of kids with single layer firesuits, or just a jacket on and blue jeans. in a seat. Have you seen some(not all) of the kids try and get out of these cars with a seat in it. How can you justify making all cars go to seats when they don't even mandate the proper fire suits, or belts. I can agree with how they sould be mounted. Keep in mind (PARENTS) racing is dangerous. Quarter midgets are the safest kids race cars around. Have you ever been to a gokart race. No seat belts no rollcages no nothing. Crazy. So lets get off of the leaning topic already! MAKE IT THE PARENTS CHOICE!


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: TysonThompson on October 03, 2008, 12:03:53 PM
USAC will address the seatbelt mounting points.  That alone will correct the extreme leaners.  If your kid cannot fit into a quarter midget than it is time to move on to a different form of racing. Most parents do a good job keeping their kids in.  The goal is to eliminate the chance of their head bouncing of the track.  If you turn you car on the side and your kids head is resting on the ground that needs to be corrected. I do not see many other changes besides seatbelt placement.
Do not expect mandatory seats.


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: Vader on October 03, 2008, 12:29:05 PM
I doubt Kevin would have brought up leaning, and shown those pictures at the webinar, if USAC wasn't going to address leaning.

While I do respect the liberty of choosing ones own fate, and it does look more fun to lean, I also doubt a child can wrap their head around the concept of being quadriplegic from an extremely rare QM crash. One day it will be illegal to smoke during pregnancy, but today, you can still see it happen.

Safety should not be politicized, or bell curved.  Safety issues should be rounded up to the safest denominator. There is a time when a kid is too big for a car, and a time when a kid is too small for a car. Safety may close these margins. An bittersweet reality.

I do thank Barr for bringing up pit area accidents. and think there should be an increase of security/safety in the off track areas.  I have stopped large packs of unsupervised kids from/while doing all sorts of dangerous stuff, on many occasions, around youth motorsport tracks.

Toad


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: goffin20 on October 03, 2008, 01:37:20 PM
Just remember that even correcting the mounting positions of the belts will not solve the issue because some drivers wear their belts very loose to allow them to lean out further.

Now how can a belt restrain a driver correctly when they loosen them enough to lean over to the left 4"-5" extra?

Injuries can and will always happen, but shouldn’t we do everything in our power to prevent the ones we can?  The above comment about the belts being loose is a prime example of why you don't leave certain things to the handlers.


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: Walker23 on October 06, 2008, 11:42:38 AM
How can you justify making all cars go to seats when they don't even mandate the proper fire suits, or belts. I can agree with how they sould be mounted. Keep in mind (PARENTS) racing is dangerous. Quarter midgets are the safest kids race cars around. Have you ever been to a gokart race. No seat belts no rollcages no nothing. Crazy. So lets get off of the leaning topic already! MAKE IT THE PARENTS CHOICE!

Simple, If a single layer firesuit catches fire from the friction of grinding against the concrete I would say you have a few other problems to address first.

Make sitting upright mandatory, level the playing field. Use or don't use a seat. I am not trying to come across arrogant but ask yourself what it would do if your kid sat upright in the car. Post your answers here.

Mine is younger, sits upright, weight transfer is an issue but I need to work on that.

If anyone would like to see photos of kids landing on their heads in a rollover, or getting hid in the head and back by another car PM me I HAVE MANY!!!


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: gwjracing on October 08, 2008, 11:47:34 AM
Solving the leaning problem should be simple...no body parts outside of the cage....if you need to lean, extend the cage.  If you need to lean to make it around the track, work on your setup...will the cars tighten up late in a long run...you bet, but we're all in the same boat.


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: TysonThompson on February 20, 2009, 02:00:38 PM
Has anyone heard anything about USAC's leaning rule?   What about a soft wall rule.  I noticed most of the tracks that have signed up do not have soft walls.  Regardless of your affiliation we must all work together for safety. 


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: 2fast4u on February 21, 2009, 07:56:52 PM
Yes to answer your question, next month USAC will have a safety meeting on these areas you have mentioned.


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: brad_tribble on February 23, 2009, 05:40:16 PM
They can make all the rules on leaning but until it is actually enforced the kids are going to lean.  Black flag a few and then maybe parents would get the picture that leaning is bad.


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: lm_79 on February 23, 2009, 07:57:03 PM
Well if you stop kids from leaning, that would make the "biking" issue worse for heavier kids. And in my opinion a kid "biking" and over-correcting it head-on into the wall would be more dangerous, than a kid leaning.

Also with the way the economy is, it could really make it tuff on people if they had to buy a hans device, and a seat.

Just my opinion


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: goffin20 on February 23, 2009, 08:05:13 PM
OK, let me see if I understand.

We have a 2 year replacement on seat belts to follow a safety recommendation to keep our kids safe.  However, you allow a child to loosen the belts to lean clearly outside of the roll cage and sometimes even the nerf bar?

Explain how that is safe?  I know of plenty of older, heavier drivers that sit upright or lean very minimally and do fine without their elbow dragging the track or their head and shoulders out in plain site to be hit by another car.  Just look at the kids head and bodies bounce around in a car flipping with tight belts and imagine if it were one of the kids with loose belts?

Leaning can be addressed just like those that complain about Vegas biking, adjust your car to handle appropriately.  It should be about child safety, nothing less!


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: brad_tribble on February 23, 2009, 10:05:09 PM
I have said this before that if I, with my lack of racing knowledge and set-up ability, can set up a car so it does not bike then ANYONE should be able to.  So don't use your lack of set-up ability as an excuse to put your kid in an unsafe driving position.


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: 2fast4u on February 23, 2009, 10:06:13 PM
im_79, how can you put a price on your kids safety. Economy or not safety is your first expence in .25.


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: Magic Man on February 24, 2009, 02:35:32 PM
I want you all to honestly answer these questions.

1.) Does a properly mounted seat increase a drivers safety?
2.) Would you put your driver in a midget/sprint with a few cushions only?
3.) Should driver comfort take presidence over driver safety in regard to how tight seat
     belts should be worn or if a seat should be mandatory
3.) Does a hans make the driver more safe?
4.) Is leaning really honestly a good idea in regard holding safety to the highest
     standard?
5.) Is leaning the best and safest cure for biking?
6.) Are newer seatbelts better than 2 year old belts?

I think alot of people I have met in quarter midgets are great people, great parents but due to lack of racing experience outside of quarters are not qualified to make the decision on what is best for safety because what you have seen is only in your few years. If you do this long enough you will see that what you think is a freak accident happens all  the time and once is enough.  This is why an organization with experience like USAC should manage the safety and QMA should have an outside commitee draw up their safety sheet instead of the RCP process.

     


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: ANB1 on February 24, 2009, 03:24:16 PM
well said buddy.  I never knew you were that smart....especially for a man your young age.  Happy b-day, btw.

Aaron-


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: clouse55 on February 24, 2009, 06:46:14 PM
 
I want you all to honestly answer these questions.

1.) Does a properly mounted seat increase a drivers safety?
2.) Would you put your driver in a midget/sprint with a few cushions only?
3.) Should driver comfort take presidence over driver safety in regard to how tight seat
     belts should be worn or if a seat should be mandatory
3.) Does a hans make the driver more safe?
4.) Is leaning really honestly a good idea in regard holding safety to the highest
     standard?
5.) Is leaning the best and safest cure for biking?
6.) Are newer seatbelts better than 2 year old belts?

I think alot of people I have met in quarter midgets are great people, great parents but due to lack of racing experience outside of quarters are not qualified to make the decision on what is best for safety because what you have seen is only in your few years. If you do this long enough you will see that what you think is a freak accident happens all  the time and once is enough.  This is why an organization with experience like USAC should manage the safety and QMA should have an outside commitee draw up their safety sheet instead of the RCP process.

 Answers
     1. No. You must know first I'm not at all for hanging out of the left side of a car like an ape. Sitting the younger/smaller drivers straight up in a seat has more negatives than positives. Most of the really hard impacts are from head on or hard right front crashes. When you are sitting in the car straight up you are relying solely on the belts, neck collar, helmet, hans, etc to absorb shock, and there is none. When you roll down in the car and tilted to the left (like I said before, not hanging out like an ape!) the shock load is transfered not only more evenly through the shoulder, waist and 5th belt (which probably 50% of quarter midgets dont have and is stupid) the drivers feet, legs, back, will also help absorb the hit. Also sitting in this position the drivers left shoulder comes up naturally and most use an arm rest on the right that does the same, which keeps the neck collar tight to the helmet. Most younger drivers sitting upright with the belts properly tightened, you could throw a cat between their shoulders and neck collar. The issue is with the under developed neck and shoulders of the younger drivers and heavy helmets.

2. Not comparing apples to apples
3. No
3. Dont know, jury is still out   (By the way Magic, you got 2#3's lol)
4. See answer of 1
5. If you could see the numbers when you calculate roll centers, moment arms, weight transfer etc. with driver in different locations it all comes down to the drivers eyeballs work better when they are side by side rather than on top of each other LOL!
6 No The QMA 2-year seatbelt rule is one of the dumbest.

Not meant to be a pissin match or arguments just food for thought. Good post Majic Man.
       
 


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: sfreitas20 on February 24, 2009, 07:28:31 PM
Here are my answers to the questions above:
1. Yes
2. HELL NO!
3a. No, but it is possible to have a comfortable driver and a safe one at the same time.  I still kick myself to this day for not taking a picture of my son sound asleep in his car in the chute waiting for the track to clear out on an open practice day (he was strapped in for about 20 minutes without moving).
3b. Yes, I also like the Hutchens device too.
4. NO...How could a kids head outside of the roll cage be safer than inside the cage?
5. Nope, buy a novice setup guide if you need some help with biking. :)
6. Depends...4 year old belts that are still in good shape, I would say yes they are just as good.  A set of six month old belts that are showing signs of wear due to crashes or installation, should be replaced.

Now for my two cents:

My family made a choice when my son started that we were investing in a Lajoie seat and we couldn't be happier with the purchase.  We could have a gotten a really great set of shocks for the car instead of running those old smoker shocks that needed refilled every race, but we decided to spend that money up front on something that would keep him safe and wait on the stuff that would make him faster.  After a couple shots into the wall, I am glad we did what we did.  We have also decided before he moves up he will be using either a HANs or a Hutchens device.  We know for that amount of money we could help make his car faster when he moves up, but we will go the route of safety now and speed later.

To put it bluntly, we all strap our kids into racecars knowing there are some inherit risks associated with it.  However, if the worst case scenario, that we all know is possible, should happen do you want to look back and wonder if a few hundred dollars might have changed the outcome?  I do not!


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: clouse55 on February 24, 2009, 07:43:40 PM
Sorry my post got screwed up


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: TysonThompson on February 25, 2009, 10:10:12 AM
Thanks to all for keeping this post alive.  Through our discussions the sport will be safer.  I respect everyones input and lets agree to disagree on somethings.  But, with my experience as a driver and my research I have found these things to be truths:
                   1. The best position for a race driver to survive an impact is upright. The force of
                       impact is distributed over a larger area of the spine.  For those of you who have
                       been around sprint car racing, high backed seats became common after Brad
                       Doty's wreck.  The theory is if there is a "backboard" running the length of the
                       driver the shock would be spread over a larger area, reducing the chance of a
                       broken back.  This to me justifies using a seat. (we run 160 and do not have
                       biking issues by the way) .  If a leaning position is safer than why hasn't other
                       forms of racing adopted it.  I am sure Dr. Trammell or Dr. Henry Bock would love 
                       to give you info on this.  Dr. Trammell's website is motorsportsmd.com.  They are
                       leading medical advisors for the IRL and the FIA.
       
                   2.  The HANS works!!! Even at this level.  My daughter started wearing one after
                        she hit her head on the steering wheel causing her to bite her tongue.  This
                        incident happened at Terre Haute in NOVICE.  She was strapped in tight and
                        was wearing a neck collar and her head and neck still stretched enough to hit
                        the wheel.  We normally ran Mini Indy which was a lot faster than the dirt at
                        Terre Haute.  Two years have passed with her wearing the HANS and there
                        have been plenty of big hits and never has she even complained of being sore.
                        The HANS or similar device helps with the heavy helmet on a little head problem
                        as it slows down the whipping motion in a crash.  According to research done by
                        the SFI foundation the neck collars actually cause more harm than good as it
                        ads weight to the head and neck.  Neck collars are HELMET SUPPORTS!!! There
                        is no manufacturer that will claim otherwise.

      There is one more issue that needs to be mentioned.   UNDERARMOUR or similar material is very dangerous to wear in auto racing.  The material has a very low melting point and will embede itself into the skin requiring surgery.  The material will melt even without direct contact with flame.  Simpson Safety equipment has a bulletin about this topic.  I just wanted to mention it because it is popular at the indoors(for obvious reasons).
   

                   



Title: Re: Safety
Post by: 3rdturn on March 01, 2009, 04:14:30 PM
A lot has been said about Driver Safety. But what about personnel properly trained to attend an injured driver. How many people know how to put a neck collar on, properly remove a helment. Should the helment be removed or left on after a hard crash? Does your track have the proper Fire Bottles (Cold Fire) is highly recommended, used by many of the top short tracks and the IRL. There are many more issues that come up on race day. So how tracks have the right people in place in case an accident happens.

  The IRL at one time had a Safety class given by Dave Brown, I don't know if it still availabe but would be worth looking into and very helpful


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: atfd404 on March 02, 2009, 08:22:52 PM
I'm a reapointed safety dir.at CQMA I also hold a NASCAR hard card for MIS Fire & Safety Crew. As a safety dir. you need to be a leader in safety on your suff and all the other drivers equiptment also. Even if it is your buddy you can't let any thing slide for the kids sake. We will be trained in April on the new Hats off device that NASCAR,IRL and AMA Super Bikes & Supercross are recomending. I see that Simpson is offering there own device also. I do not hold any medical card for the State of Michigan but I have 17 years of fire & rescue training and experiance. As far as properly trained I feel that I am trained enough to know when to call for help. All I can say is work as a team on a driver that may be injured don't rush or feel like you are holding up the show remember the safety of the kids comes first. Most tracks don't have neck collars or stuff like that. Don't ever remove a helmet unless the driver is having a hard time breathing leave that up to a medic or EMT. I will be bringing some stuff from MIS that I learn this spring to CQMA this summer. To also add the IRL has there own safety team and I doubt they would share any info with any one trying to better our kids sport. Just my thoughts
Jeff Steele
CQMA safety Dir
Lansing,Mi


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: gass on March 02, 2009, 08:52:24 PM
To also add the IRL has there own safety team and I doubt they would share any info with any one trying to better our kids sport. Just my thoughts
Jeff Steele
CQMA safety Dir
Lansing,Mi

The one thing that I disagree with is the above statement.  I am the Customer Service Rep. and on the Advisory Board of INDY DownForce, "The Official Fan Club of the IRL" Tony George has been on the top of the list when it comes to Safety.  I talk with some of the Safety teams, flight nurse etc.. and  while I cannot speak for them, I cannot see any of them turning their back on a kid, if asked to come and talk, I bet you a few would, barring it isn't during race season which starts April 5th in St. Pete.  We have had the Safety Team come out and talk to INDY DownForce members, never a problem. 

Nancy Gass





Title: Re: Safety
Post by: atfd404 on March 02, 2009, 09:23:23 PM
 Don't get me wrong the IRL Safety Team is one if not the best in the busness. They have a job to do and they do it well along with the crew ISC puts together for the NASCAR events at MIS that crew is top knoch just ask Ernie Ervin.Yes Tony George is on top of safety for the drivers I have seen it first hand and maybe the Safety Team's members are not the same as a few years ago as IRL no longer has a race at MIS.I'm not trying to start a argument my main consern(sp)at the track is the safety of my driver and all of the other drivers at that event. Please do all you as a handler and a parent keep the kids safe.
Jeff Steele


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: gass on March 02, 2009, 09:56:18 PM
Jeff,

It's all good, everything you have said regarding removing helmet etc... is true.  I have seen parents and handlers thinking they were doing the best for their kids by getting them out of the car and removing helmet and they don't realize the harm they can cause.   We have always tried to keep our son safe but have seen some that have skimped on safety. We bought a Hutchens Device for our son and a few people asked what it was for, it really surprised me.  I also see the radio as a added bonus for the kids, I know if we had it last year we may have not been hit a few times after a yellow...

Nancy


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: grandma13 on March 03, 2009, 01:48:16 PM
You all are saying exactly the right thing with the safety of the children and NOT removing the helmet.  I do wish to point out though that you need to take a good look at the medical team you bring in to be on stand by at the event.  This last summer our racer was run into a wall where she traveled the wall flipping numerous times.  Having come to a stop finally-medics were on hand as well as myself.  Finally making sure she was conscious she was taken to the medic ambulance where they proceeded to evaluate her.  I was very upset that they could not get a Blood Pressure on her because they had very poor equipment.  Finally I said get the cuff on her and I checked it radially.  Now to me these were NOT proper EMT techs let alone a set up for handling an emergency.  Thankfully, she had the proper equipment on, belts were tight, helmet was the best that she could have had as it was cracked after inspection.  Yet again I had to scream DO NOT remove the helmet, Support the neck.

So please everyone double check the EMT people you bring in.  If the track insists you use theirs then check their equipment and make sure they are certified EMTs-if not then time to say to the track that they need to be replaced no matter what the cost.

A big thanks to all concerned over the safety of our children. 


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: ssssmoke on March 03, 2009, 03:19:54 PM
sure makes me feel alot better seeing you at the track granny, your always lending your great advice and everyone that reads your posts gains valuable knowledge, helping make our sport safer. i thank you.


Title: Re: Safety
Post by: grandma13 on March 03, 2009, 04:58:06 PM
Anytime I can help you know where to find me always have minor first aide stuff with me.

Glad you are a great friend to my son. :)